Cartoonist, illustrator, loudmouth, TTRPG guy


DieselBrain
@DieselBrain

looking around most other platforms, its becoming increasingly obvious and WEIRD how sex negative average internet denizens are becoming. like this isnt proship vs anti discourse or anything this is like, completely average, joe schmoe normies seeing like an attractive character with obvious sex appeal in a game or something and calling it "gooner/coomer shit". Or seeing a hint of sexuality in some media and immediately writing it off as "porn addict shit".

which isnt to say that you know, sex and "the gaze" in media is beyond critique but seeing completely average people react so negatively to otherwise fairly tame content is weirding me out.

plus the added anxiety of seeing "sex/porn addict" become more and more normalized in the popular lexicon when that shit isnt fucking real


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in reply to @DieselBrain's post:

I'm gonna guess you've already read this because it makes the rounds pretty often, but JUST in case, I feel like this is... Either a cause, or reflective. Chicken, egg, idk. And it's got some real good observations.

https://bloodknife.com/everyone-beautiful-no-one-horny/

Like I do think the pro/anti stuff is very adjacent but, yeah, even without getting into that there's this growing general sex aversion which feels like a lot of young progressive people took the extremely wrong message from discourse about exploitative sex marketing, male gaze, objectification vs power fantasy, etc

Yeah, I'd blame that on like eight different types of political and religious extremism being anti-sexuality in general. It's legitimately hip/woke/good-and-god-fearing/based/etc. to think sex is icky and gives you cooties.

its scary the way teens / 20yr olds are reacting to literally any sexual content. i was driven off an art site that allows nsfw art bc the users are just so. adamant. about this. every time i posted something multiple other users would start writing vagueposts about mental illness and contemplating what could possibly be wrong with nsfw artists and how your mind must be LONG gone if you have fetishes. couldnt talk to them about it bc they genuinely believe i belong in the psych ward for drawing naked butts so i just left 🙃

it's a talking point of the right to move the overton window. If I remember correctly, the national medical organizations in the US went "get out with that shit" when some people tried to get it in books. At a global level, the term exist but come with caveat boiling down to "feet fetish is perfectly normal, get over it bob"

There was an article floating around about this a couple weeks ago that remarked that a lot of the people who seriously struggle with what they label "porn addiction" mean that they use pornography as often as.... once per month??? So it seems like they have some other sort of fixation going on and a whole hell of a lot of guilt around it more than an actual addictive behaviour

It's not. But when you've been conditioned to see sex/porn as inherently immoral no matter how much of it you do, it's easy to misinterpret normal horniness as "addiction" and when you finally cave after a month it's "relapse."

Something other folks didn't mention; The greatest correlation between people who seek help for porn/sex addiction is religious guilt. The stronger someone feels about their religion's dislike of sexuality, the more likely they are to view themselves as addicted to porn, with most of them viewing porn less than a dozen times a month, and not for a particularly lengthy period of time.

Most overtly sex-negative people around here are either, like. Very-Serious-About-Religion catholics (kinda rare breed), or protestants. Basically what protestants like to do here in Brazil (I imagine, influenced bc of historical reasons to do with the Dutch coming to Brazil at some point), is to mimic whatever is going on in the US/Canada/UK. So like, megachurches, puritanism, christian tv and the works.

I do notice that lgbt people who grew up in catholic households tend to be chiller about kink and sex, and lgbt people who lived in protestant households tend to be very easily shocked by the fact people fuck (this, I mean, in a brazilian context). However, now that I think about it, it could just be that most people who grew up with catholics here aren't religious anymore, whereas people who grew up with protestants have a harder time letting go.

It's kinda strange, I know, but catholics here tend to be more left-leaning.

It's interesting how different things are in different places! Honestly I think (in the US at least) it has less to do with religious beliefs specifically and more to do with the unfortunate influence conservatives have in online spaces, with talk of "degeneracy" and all that shit

I was watching the new philosophy tube video that featured not just bikes. The segment about time square red, time square blue I think really identified the problem in the material conditions of the imperial core. As more and more public space is destroyed, as the ability to have sexual encounters is stripped away, as living with one's parents becomes more common and there are fewer and fewer places to just... explore each others bodies. Well, I think it's only natural these material conditions give rise to an ideology that tries to fill the gap. Sexual repulsion and puritanical ideas are being used as a mental shield to avoid facing the contradictions of our society's loneliness problem.

🎙️ there was an incident I had to deal with the other day where I offhandedly MENTIONED a sexual concept around somebody(not aimed at them, just in their vicinity) and despite being entirely tame and not even, like... describing anything? like just acknowledging that people like sex, it was so upsetting to them they had to do violent(like, full-on depictions of death and disembowelment) vent art about it

and all I could think was 'buddy I get not wanting to HAVE sex but THIS is, uh, kind of an alarming reaction' and I just wonder if people are, like, okay

Two things I haven't seen mentioned that might be going on:

One, I think there's an evolving social strategy in queer activism that makes this a lot more "bipartisan" that mirrors something that happened in the unholy alliance of puritan feminism in the first wave. Essentially, we know that extreme right-wing politics have sex-negativity at their core, and one of the major right-wing strategies for demonizing LGBT folk is to sexualize them at every turn. Not only is actual sexual activity or public display of affection automatically more objectionable when coming from homosexual couples or visibly trans or queer people, but even basic information and activism is decried as sexual performance, often with the implication that presenting in these ways in public or educating people about LGBT is pornographic or "grooming" children (because, the logic goes, children are allowed in public and are receiving educational material). I think a really common reactionary response to this on the LGBT activist side is to present a sanitized "wholesome gay" as we see in a lot of culture right now. This obviously doesn't convince the actual bigots who are being disingenuous about their reasoning in the first place, but it does shift the mainstream overton window by countering that sexualizing rhetoric

I say this mirrors early feminist strategy because a key victory that strengthened the puritan-feminist alliance of was something of a reversal or at least muddying of the waters in gendered stereotypes about sexuality. Patriarchal Christianity had long held that women were intrinsically sexual beings, and thus incapable of the higher reason they claimed came from denial of worldly vices. This shows up in a lot of bible stories, of course, as well as screeds against women throughout the history of Christianity. But by the Victorian era, alongside efforts toward women's suffrage, more people started to view women as essentially asexual, and sexual desire to be primarily initiated by men. This was strengthened in the American prohibition era where orgs like the American Temperance Society aligned with suffrage groups and then this alliance passed the Volstead act together. This cultural shift had a lot of far-reaching cultural consequences (think "boys will be boys") but it was kind of a devil's bargain that let women argue in favor of their own mental competence via a logic many at the time would accept. It's a tactic with a lot of negative side effects, but in some senses it can be said to accomplish what it sets out to: Mainstreaming and assimilation. If a context where one is viewed as less than human because of some kind of atavistic sexuality, one way to argue for one's humanity is to demonstrate that one is in fact not a sexual being.

The second thing is that people's experience in general involves a lot less sexuality. Like it's been noted by a lot of people that factors such as the sprawl of suburbia and the decline of third places, especially for young people, the greater availability of online spaces due to advances in technology, and the increasing surveillance and paranoia inflicted on people in general but especially children (I think this is fed by not only technology but also by fearmongering propaganda, 24-hour news networks that thrive on sensationalism, and of course the aforementioned right-wing tactic of sexualizing things they don't like) causes less opportunity to explore and express sexuality, especially in a positive context. Also, some people seem to suspect that mass-prescribing SSRIs, especially to developing children, might be reducing actual physical sex drive in a massive swath of the population of rich countries. This is a known side-effect of a lot of anti-depressants.

Add all these factors up. Sex is less and less a part of people's actual lived experience. When you hear about sex, inevitably mostly in the media, it's to demonize someone or talk about scary stuff that's happening in the world. To a lot of people alive today, the first thing that comes to mind when they think of sex isn't intimacy they've experienced with other people, it's news reports of horrific rapes, copaganda about "sex trafficking", political rhetoric using sex to justify bigotry. Of course this stacks out to pervasive sex-negativity.

i've been encountering this too and it drives me completely insane. i'll see people talking about artists online who draw completely sfw drawings of furry girls with, like, exposed midriffs and maybe a little visible cleavage and go "smdh, all they draw now is gooner shit. waste of talent"

yeah ive seen similar shit, or artists who very OBVIOUSLY want to draw more cheesecake damn near having panic attacks at the idea of actually doing so or heavens forbid actually drawing nsfw

like what are we doing here

I've actually had some in-person conversations with some of my younger adult family members around their attitudes around sex because of this in particular.

It's not just younger folks, but in general, the attitude that no sex makes someone "righteous" even in the LGBTQ+ community is some grade A Bible shit from my youth, repackaged in a "feminist critique" or "queer critique" veneer.