Cania

KAY-nee-ah

  • they/them

My Website
www.cania.zone/
My public discord server
discord.com/invite/bKrtWUN3mp

lexyeevee
@lexyeevee

i'm feeling a parallel between two extremely unlikely places: people who played pokémon scarlet/violet, and people who use linux

because most of the time when i see someone talk about pokémon nowadays it comes in the form "oh yeah fun game i played it for 300 hours... LOL frame drops though, game freak is incompetent and the game sucks i just play it for the designs"

and most of the time when i see linux users talk about linux (to the point that i gave up following the #linux tag on here ages ago) it comes in the similar form of "i've used linux for twenty-six years now but LOL sound printing year of the linux desktop wifi"

it even happened with cohost; there were a few early adopters whose every other post was either about or made mention of how cohost sucks and nothing works

and i do not get it. i do not get talking about the thing you clearly like with a constant, endless scorn and sneering, dripping condescension. like if only they'd get their act together and do all of your good ideas then everything would be perfect

is the fear that you will come across as an insufferable fanboy if you talk about the thing you like as if you like it? because let me tell you, the alternative you've found is not very sufferable. i am tired of suffering it in fact. it's fucking miserable to be surrounded by other enjoyers of a thing who act like they hate it more than the people who do actually hate it


space-engineer-julia
@space-engineer-julia

imo, self flagellation is an attempt to deflect criticism by preemptively criticizing the thing itself. “you can’t criticize me if I criticize me first”. Simply stating that you like a thing on the internet attracts comments declaring that that thing in fact is bad, implying that the op is a fool who can’t tell the difference between good stuff and bad stuff.


blaurascon
@blaurascon
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Cania
@Cania

i try not to do this but sometimes things are factually bad, and i enjoy them anyway, and i think it's important to point that out. i wouldn't describe it as self flagellation to say "sure, my hobbies all revolve around computers, and also my computer makes me want to throw it out of a twelfth story window." hobbies and interests aren't things i do because i am having fun 100% of the time — i do them because i find them fascinating.

i recently "finished" Balan Wonderworld and lemme tell you: i enjoyed the hell out of it, but i would recommend it to exactly nobody. it broke my brain in novel ways and seemed to be laser targeted to making me, personally, confused and disoriented. this feeling is a thing i seek out because it's unusual, not because it's good. trying to talk about this game means i must talk about how bad it is, because that's precisely what makes it an interesting object.

i do think there's a lot of times people say "i love this thing that sucks" as a way to avoid people thinking you are cringe, and that is frustrating. enjoy the things you enjoy! appreciate them sincerely! who cares what people think!

but sometimes the things i enjoy do genuinely suck, and i think that's part of what makes them interesting! i want to express the complexity of my feelings for something without people thinking i'm trying to dodge criticism.

EDIT: also don't do things you hate, i will say i've seen people do that a lot and i think it sucks. hate-participating in something is like, okay once in a while but if that's like everything you're doing that's definitely not good.


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in reply to @lexyeevee's post:

As someone with an interest in psychoanalysis, the disappointment is precisely the pleasure. Everyone complains that the bag of chips is too much air and not enough chips. But if it were enough chips, you'd be satisfied, it'd be over. The complaining is the love and enjoyment. The problems with Pokemon and Linux are exactly what makes them so appealing, so sticky.

if there were more chips they'd all be crumbs! the air is padding!!!!!! this analogy is extremely apt because you only get a new and completely different game every three years if they haul ass to get it out the door!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, I mean... I think the nature of enjoyment comes from the friction you experience with it, the lack within it. Games are enjoyable because they fight back, provide friction, and importantly, are never enough.

When people complain about a thing they like, it's because they REALLY like it and are expressing how deep it has its hooks in them.

I have had more than enough tubes of Pringle shards to disabuse me of any notions of Pringle supremacy I may have had.

Their main advantage is that in being reconstituted potato you don't get the mixture of sizes of regular crisps, from too large for your mouth to too small to chew.

I mean, my point isn't about the air, but that satisfaction is the enemy of desire. The wanting is important for enjoyment. That's why something being lacking or frustrating is a key part of desire.

The Pringles can being better is more about you getting one over on potato chips companies than enjoying the chip itself, for example.

I understand your point, I was just talking about Pringles. They have a different sort of dissatisfaction than standard chips, though, in that it's too easy to eat too many and feel sick.

sincerity is amazing. we always take the time to listen to people who are speaking with full earnestness about why they love a thing. it's worth cherishing sincerity precisely because there is cultural opposition to it sometimes :/

Typically when I see it happen really persistently it's because that person's used to any kind of effortposting being met with 50,000 boring fuckers tripping over each other to offer the most generic, superficial "well actually" rebuttal possible, and a misguided attempt to head that off by saying all the most tedious ones first (doesn't work)

I do enjoy complaining and talking about things I like and doing both at once though

Hell if I'm honest it just feels nicer to focus on the good things about things I like. I used to feel like I had to, like, demonstrate that I was being critical enough I guess, so I would do that whole display of the negatives until I realized that was just making me miserable.

I relate a lot with this! And I don't know how to stop this... Even if I don't talk about the negatives, my mind is constantly thinking about it, it's like I cannot give myself a break, I must be hyper critical of my own thoughts all the time

I'm trying very hard to not jump into the conversations about Pokemon from people saying things that to me, are nonsense. I'm trying to repeat to myself that they're expressing an emotional need in a way they find useful... but it does create this landscape of people repeating each other's expressions and then it feels like rather than a coherent position expressing an experience it's everyone photocopying each other's homework.

Any individual expressing stuff that to me looks like nonsense, I can just discard, but it's still frustrating watching this memeplex form of 'we can only talk about this in this crouch where we show we recognise other people's complaints.'

The issue is that the loudest voices are negative voices, there is a silent majority that loves the game and just don't feel like it's worth talking about how they like it because of those voices. "Oh, you like what Gamefreak shit out/oh you must not care about pokemon quality/why are you having fun?"

It's also the fact that even if there is someone being reasonable (yeah, the framerate is bad, but I still liked X) that person will be taken out of context or attacked again.

https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2024/02/scarlet-and-violet-are-now-the-third-best-selling-pokemon-games-of-all-time

I have not played, but if I put time in a game to get to an ending there must have been something about it that I liked.

(For example, I yeeted tales of symphonia dawn of the new world after 1 main dungeon of content)

as people tell it, they're unplayable messes (as are BDSP) instead of just... normal pokemon games that have some slowdown or are easier than people who've been playing the series for 20 years are expecting, as best i can tell?

big arrested development "but maybe this one will be different" vibes on the difficulty

There is definitely an asymmetry here because yeah if you say you like something, it's good, etc, it feels like you're guaranteed to get people railing at you, like I've posted plenty about how Linux is a perfectly cromulent desktop OS these days and it's about a 2:3 chance that gets responded to with at least one attack about how I'm a Bad Nerd Who Doesn't Know What I'm Talking About. God forbid I should say I like this here webbing site we're posting on because a dozen people who definitely don't go here (which is why they all have ten thousand posts) will start yelling about discourse, parasociality, etc and it gets easier to preemptively play off both sides just to keep people from yelling at you for enjoying something.

in reply to @space-engineer-julia's post:

yepp.

eventually you just keep your opinions to yourself as nobody would add anything to your posts anyway: it's already all there: the good AND the bad in perfect balance

as it should be