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Blinkie reading "Cygnus" on top of a glittering starry backgroundBlinkie reading "Stargender Swag" featuring the stargender pride flag behind it.Blinkie reading "T4T BABEYYYY" featuring a trans pride flag and two blinking hearts beside the textBlinkie reading "Evil Autism" with a black background and blinking dotted red border Blinkie reading "Bitten by the blinkie bug!"


staff
@staff

hey y'all, jae here. it's been a bit since our last financial update (we've had A Lot going on, both personally and within the business) but we're at a point where we aren't going to get meaningfully more information by continuing to wait to publish this. as always, if you have questions about any terms it's worth taking a look at past financial updates.


Revenue, expenses, and users

CategoryAs of March 11As of February 13Change
Previous 4 weeks revenue (subscriptions only)$12,496.42$8,369.14+49.3%
Eggbug plush net revenue$10,067.64n/an/a
Expenses$34,328.71$32,643.92+5.16%
Net Income-$11,764.65-$24,274.78+48.5%
Active subscribers2,6302,521+4.3%
Monthly Recurring Revenue (MRR)$14,536.03$14,037.80+3.5%
Subscriber churn rate2.63%2.1%+25.2%
Revenue per subscriber$5.53$5.57-0.7%
Total users196,220181,309+8.2%
Monthly active users (MAU)29,846n/an/a
MAU -> Subscriber conversion rate8.8%n/an/a

I've included the eggbug plush revenue as a separate line item since it's not representative of recurring revenue, which is a better indicator of the overall health of the business. unfortunately, we're still having data issues and can't track MAU-over-time.

cohost and ASSC as a whole are, obviously, still not profitable. our largest expense remains payroll by a long shot. even with only four employees, we're having trouble making ends fully meet. we’ve suspected from the beginning that it’s almost impossible to make ends meet on a social network without compromising on something we don’t want to compromise on — running display ads, or farming out development or operations work to underpaid contractors or volunteers — and the post-Twitter collapse internet has shown us no evidence to the contrary: the fediverse is dependent on volunteer labor all over the place; bluesky is losing a small number of people’s money but those people are several orders of magnitude wealthier than our one person; and most of the other “alternative social media” have fewer paid staff than us, if any at all.

this is why we originally planned to build cohost only as a side project on the way to building a platform for tipping and subscriptions like ko-fi or patreon (hereafter referred to as "eggbux" because it's less to write), rather than depending on cohost plus for funding indefinitely. our conversion rate of MAU to paid subscribers is already incredibly high; the industry standards are around 4-8% and we've been able to clock in above that basically since we launched cohost plus. trying to get that number higher will see seriously diminishing returns and isn't really worth putting a ton of time and effort into.

we've been fully dependent on outside funding from a single person to get us to that point (as has been discussed before, they prefer to remain publicly anonymous for privacy reasons. this is pretty reasonable; I would too if it were me) and they've been wholly supportive of our goals and missions. we have been aware the entire time that we can not sustainably rely on a single person for funding; they do not have infinite wealth.

What's Going On With Eggbux

the launch of eggbux has been hilariously delayed from all of our internal targets. because we only have two developers, we decided to divide labor between the two projects (myself on eggbux, colin on cohost) since otherwise cohost would have been in maintenance mode indefinitely; we decided the risk of "cohost remains unchanged when we know there's issues that need to be solved" was too high to justify having two people on this project.

however, this meant that shipping eggbux on time was fully dependent on its assigned developer (me) being able to work at a consistent, strong pace through the entire process. this didn't happen.

to avoid going into too much detail: I am disabled and experienced related health issues that prevented me from working at even half-pace for much of the back-half of last year. this compounded with fear of failure, preventing us from having the sort of difficult conversations needed to fully right the ship. to be frank, the vibes internally have been rancid, and we weren’t able to start fixing this until early last month. all of this and more combined to keep us from launching eggbux on time or, as of now, at all.

it sucks when there is a single person you can point to as the reason why a massive, important project hasn't happened yet. it sucks worse when that person is you and you feel powerless to fix the issues causing it. but no matter how much it sucks, it doesn't change that eggbux hasn't shipped and we are still dependent on cohost plus as our only source of revenue.

Runway

at current estimates, we will run out of money in early April. we have plans we are evaluating to keep cohost operational. we DO NOT intend to shut down cohost unless absolutely necessary. we have no reason to believe it is necessary. more detail about our plans below.

Funding

as discussed above, we have been dependent on a single funder throughout ASSC's history. the way funding is structured is through a series of promissory notes issued by the company to our funder — essentially collateralized loans from them to us. they DO NOT own any actual equity in ASSC (this is important to us as a worker-owned co-op); we’re ultimately responsible only for paying the principal on the loans as well as a small amount of interest, then we own the company free and clear. the collateral on these loans is IP rights on ASSC's output. barring a renegotiation on these terms, if we default on the loans then our funder will have ownership over the cohost software.

this is part of what has blocked us from open-sourcing cohost thus far; we think we could but things are dicey there. (the other aspect preventing open-sourcing is that, ideologically, we do not want to be getting paid for development work while also accepting volunteer labor — especially since we’re still an LLC.)

here’s the most urgent problem right now: our funder has been completely incommunicado for over a month right as we’re drawing on the last of our funding from them. we’ve been friends with them since before ASSC was a thing, so not only is this is a matter of paying the bills, but also unexpected, unusual, and leaving us concerned for their personal welfare on top of everything else.

this leaves a lot in the air: are we going to get new funding? are we going to have to do one of our alternate plans? are we even able to do them, given other outside requirements?

Plan B (and C, and D, etc.)

we’ve considered a bunch of possible ways forward subject to various conditions. they are presented in roughly order-of-preference but we have not done things like "take a vote" or "make any final decisions." everything here is subject to change.

Business As Usual

conditions:

  • we are able to contact our funder and secure further funding

this one doesn't really need a ton of explanation. the goal here is to actually fucking ship eggbux and Get Revenue to become financially sustainable. it is Plan A.

we crowdfund cohost from users more explicitly

obstacles:

  • equity crowdfunding (wefunder, circleup, etc.) is a nonstarter for us on moral grounds. in general, we don’t want this company to be owned by the type of people who have angel investment money kicking around.
  • the only asset we would consider using as collateral for a loan (our work product for the past few years) is already being used as collateral.
  • as an ostensibly for-profit entity, “please give us money in exchange for no long-term guarantee of anything” is not a proposition we think we can use to raise the ~$400,000 a year we need to keep the lights on for long.
  • we’re open to officially reincorporating as a non-profit, but: that would require our funder’s approval, being a non-profit carries with it a significant amount of additional work on its own (the paperwork itself, finding an external board of directors to control the direction of the organization, and spending time working with them), and we’re not actually sure how much more money it would help us raise.

cohost stops being some of our full-time jobs

obstacles:

  • right now, we have enough steady revenue to pay one of our paychecks, host the site, and hire other people on an occasional contract basis. if we did this, our priority for continued spending on full-time work would be moderation.
  • choose your own adventure:
    • site development slows down further.
    • we start accepting volunteer labor. this would require open-sourcing the codebase, which would require our funder’s sign-off (since they own our software in the event of default). this is also terrible from an ethical standpoint unless we reincorporate as a non-profit. see above for some of the issues here.
  • the rest of us would have to get other jobs to pay rent and like. have you seen the job market?? it’s not great

cohost gets acquired

conditions:

  • someone actually expresses interest here (we are not shopping ourselves around but we're also somewhat open to offers. e-mail us if you’ve got one.)
  • we receive an offer that prevents mixing or sale of user data, or any other changes that would go against our ethical red lines.

in the event we agreed to a sale, we would provide full data export tools and allow users to opt-out of the sale, fully deleting their account from the database prior to any transfer. more detail on what that would look like below.

cohost shuts down

this one’s obvious. some of the specifics of how we’d do this:

  • we would write data export tools and a small static site generator so you could reconnect with your cohost friends on other sites and easily rehost old posts “as they were meant to be seen”, and e-mail everyone links to their data before the site shut down.
  • the links would remain operational for at least several months since the cost for hosting a static copy of this data is negligible.
  • on our way out the door we would wipe the database. your data would not be sold to data brokers or marketing companies and the only copy left would be the one we exported for you.

we like this option the least. I can say personally that I would be very sad if it went in this direction.

The Future

so where does this leave us? right now it's business as usual, working on cohost and eggbux, trying to figure out what's next. there's still a distressingly large amount of unknowns here. it's eating at our sleep and thoughts outside of work, which is eating at our ability to do our best work, which creates a real dogshit cycle.

I am fully aware that putting this out is likely to create a panic. I hate that I can't say "it's going to be fine" because at this moment I literally have no idea where things go from here. we have some options that all come with their own issues, but no decisions yet.

no matter where things end up, I want to say that I am proud of what we've built. I am proud of cohost, I love the weird sort of culture that we've got here, and I'm glad we've been able to make it happen for as long as we have. we're doing our best over here to keep it going indefinitely, and we're really grateful for your support this whole time and going forward.

we'll hopefully be back soon with good news. until then, thank you as always for using cohost. :eggbug:

~jae


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in reply to @staff's post:

folks have previously mentioned user-made banner ads and i think that would be a good thing. i would rather prefer ads made by other people that link to cool shit rather than Coca-Cola giving me an ad for their Drink for the thousandth time.

The layout has a lot of space that would be good for that. I'd be interested in seeing what the pricing on that would look like for users- it feels like the kind of thing that could easily balloon from one checkbox to a three-page form of options, LOL.

yeah, we've talked internally some about doing this. previously we were still very early into eggbux development and didn't want to distract from that. last time we discussed (which was, admittedly, before the most recent tumblr exodus) site activity had dipped below a threshold where we were concerned user ads wouldn't work anymore. the tumblr exodus changes that calculus somewhat, but we're unsure if it would give us the short-term fix needed, and it's still hard to dedicate our (admittedly limited) resources to something that might just not work.

It’s less about interest in purchasing (in the short term) and more of a question of what kind of revenue could we make? What is the right amount to charge? How much CPM could we realistically generate for someone?

those are good questions but if CPM is hard to measure and it's a funding emergency you could do something simpler, like "pay us $100 and it goes into this week's pool of ads, every time an user loads a page one of the ads from the pool shows up, we'll add a way to measure how many people see it later"

makes sense. Others have suggested a poll or form to gather data and I also think it's a good idea - you could ask questions like "how much would you pay to do X" or "how often would you do X" to help you gather some data

I know that a bunch of people saying "I would buy this" is a far fling from having the kind of hard numbers that can drive website development, but I do wanna say that I would totally buy ad space on this website. Cohost has a stunning click-through rate in my experience, and I'd be willing to throw a couple hundred bucks in that direction for e.g. game announcements and the like. I owe a lot of my current financial situation to Cohost's reaction to Snake Farm; this place has proven itself a solid bet.

same!! starting to write a book here boosted my Patreon income directly by a notable amount. I love this place and it's been good to me; I would jump at the chance to put ads of my stories and books here in little catgirl-machine-shaped css boxes

From end user's perspective - i know i'd be clicking ads on cohost. I mean, i was discovering stuff via Project Wonderful ads back in the day and i can't recall any other instance where i was okay with following ads, so it's something special when i trust website's ad pool enough to click on them.

A lot of people are coming to say they would buy it, but it’s not really a question of could we sell this kind of space (at least in the short term)

It’s more of a question of how much revenue would it actually drive. This is no doubt an idea worth considering, but it’s not as simple as finding buyers

i suggest attempting it and just being upfront about that the user-bought-ads function is in a public beta state and that functionality and prices will change over time after getting results.

I do think there’s part of it that isn’t as driven by profit especially in the beginning. For instance while a lot of RoyalRoad user ads now are webnovels with books out or patreons, in the beginning it was just like “look at my novel please!” and slowly developed as the site added more ways to convert people visiting your page to donating. I see a lot of similarities between this situation and the royalroad situation.

i would buy ad space for 'idaidaida II' pretty much immediately if it was available (depending on how much it would cost! i'm still rather poor after all). cohost has been super friendly to me as a musician and i think running ads here benefits everyone involved.

i've seen artists discuss receiving attention and commissions/donations through cohost before. they mention how the userbase here is full of fellow queer furry nerds who all like to support eachother, so despite there not being any algorithm present, they get more commissions through cohost. i think the same thing would apply to ads: people wouldn't mind seeing my stuff on an ad, i get attention from an audience full of cool supportive people, and cohost gets money. it'd just be a win-win situation at that point. i think most of the people asking for ad space view it in a similar way!

Cohost is already shockingly good for clickthroughs for me tbh. Something like 7% of a recent crowdfunding campaign I did came from here, which is shockingly high relative to the size of the userbase. Even if I weren't inclined to chip in in general based on liking cohost, based on those numbers I'd absolutely give it a shot.

Personally, I think ads are the way to go here. User made ads are probably the best, as it supports the community focused mission compared to bringing in who knows what. Of course this brings up the question of ad blocker usage and I suspect having a tech savvy user base like the one this site has hurts more then helps. Nonetheless showing a message in that ad space when blocked informing people it's all from other users could help.

I'd personally throw some money your way for ads, as clickthroughs have always been pretty good even on posts of mine advertising projects. No reason to doubt ads would be different.

While it isn't a 1:1 translation, the forum Something Awful has had user-purchased ad space for many years and you could reach out to their site admin to ask about how successful that has been. I know they also have other ad space, and a purchase for ad-free browsing with an explicit option to make that ad-free not apply to user-purchased ads.

I don't know if that option existing is a sign of that being a successful way to fund a website or not, but it implies to me a desire for users to post and see user-generated advertisements.

I think this would be excellent; seeing "ads" for projects by fellow chosters would be pretty much the only form of advertisement I'd consider a net benefit. Might be a good idea to bin them into SFW/NSFW at the very least, or maybe even give the ads tags so that they can respect existing user preferences?

yeah, those are very good ideas! ik some websites have 2 sets of ads, one for SFW viewing and one for NSFW, maybe a toggle in the preferences where you can select if you want one or the other, or both?

100% this. I've been talking with another adult gamedev who bought ad space on FA, and apparently the whole process has been a chore. Communication, unclear changing standards, etc. I really like the idea of tagging the ads as well. You don't want to be forced in front of an audience that would normally block your content. It also could hypothetically surface those ads more often on tag searches?

fourthing this? fifthing this? would absolutely want ads from cohost users. like seriously i would love that.

i straight up wonder if there's a way to just run this as a community already? like, we get a @cohostads account, ask people to submit proof that they're buying like 10x cohost plus, then the account advertises for them and people can follow the account to make it more valuable to whoever wants to advertise on it.

+1 from me; while i (currently) don't have any reason to buy ads; ads being user-made would actually encourage not blocking them too since they'll likely be much less disruptive and annoying than the usual interweb ads; plus they might even advertise some actually cool stuff

Yeah adding yet another point of approval for this, though I understand the complexities involved in implementation. I actually do click on like, Furaffinity ads sometimes, and I used to for webcomics back when ads were...for webcomics and art and indie games instead of Google beige techodrek.

Millionth-ing this (would buy ads immediately), and also the observation of a great click-through rate here - I've put out a couple of Unreal Engine Tools recently and way more of the income from those has come through Cohost than through the Unreal Engine Marketplace itself, which is pretty wild.

I never consider buying ads anywhere else; it's the inherent goodwill of the audience here that makes it feel like it would be worthwhile here, and the "only ads from actual cost users" aspect. I'd take an interest in the ads that were here, which I do nowhere else on the internet

yeah i would fucking LOVE user generated ads tbh. even as someone that tries very hard to block ads, user generated ads are very much an exception. i enjoy sincere and weird things. if i could be gifted strange user generated small things on the side of my underutilized space, i would most certainly opt-in to viewing them. cohost is a very cool place, and i would enjoy to support it and its community as much as i reasonably can. it might even be good to have an accessible way to promote oneself and/or one's project(s).

I would also be into this idea! Discoverability is one thing I am still figuring out here (not just for me, but finding other cool artists), so I would welcome a space where people could advertise their posts/projects/accounts/whatever. Personally I've had good success with using Blaze on tumblr, so I would totally use such a feature if it came to cohost.

we'll tell you if something were to come up, but this isn't really a "pass the collection basket" around kind of situation. we also believe that to be a less than ethical approach.

If you are in a position to set a few hundred bucks on fire (most users aren't) you could prepay a year of Cohost Plus! at a higher level. This won't solve the long-term problem, but if enough people did it could give @staff an additional week or two of runway in which to secure funding.

Btw, it seems to me that if the site had a mandatory fee of either $5 or $10 per year per active user that would solve the problem.

What does that have to do with anything? All I'm saying is it's a site with mandatory fees that nevertheless has more than 0 users.
On top of that, it seems weird to imply a non-profit site having a volunteer staff is a problem in the middle of a discussion full of people asking about volunteering their labor to an LLC.

I think a genuine worry is that barring signing up at all behind a payment, however small, would simply turn away a lot of people who are far too used to the "everything is free" internet, perhaps to the point that there won't even be enough paying users left over to keep the lights on and staff paid.

What might have worked 10-20 years ago on the internet won't necessarily work today. A small, entirely volunteer-run community doesn't have nearly the operating expenses of a cooperative with 4 full-time employees.

MLTSHP also seems to market itself as a service more than a platform, so it makes a lot more sense to charge a fee for it. It's like the difference between Google Drive and YouTube.

Not the best example to follow considering the context surrounding it now and its culture's legacy (it is historically significant and worth mentioning regardless), but Something Awful did this and had thousands of active & incoming users for a very long time.

per the post above, our expenses per year (assuming everything stays the same and we are all employed and modest-for-the-industry wage) get to around $400,000. while charging for signups was discussed, it wouldn't make nearly a big enough dent to make up for its downsides currently.

there are other ways we could implement a system sort of like this that we've talked about, but we're not really sold on it right now.

I'm solidly in the basket of "I think it's more ethical for this site to continue running than not, if people are indeed offering to volunteer," as I have little to no doubt it would be an informed consent to volunteer [unethically]. But I've also never been in charge of anything and it sounds like there's probably legal ramifications I am unaware of. Still! Site, very good! My life? Significantly better with site! I find this to be very ethical.

Volunteer labor is unfortunately more complicated than a simple "can't do." There are in fact ways for a for-profit entity to utilize volunteer labor - avoiding running afoul of labor laws is a problem, but a tractable one.

So... 3 weeks(ish).

This seems kinda like a late announcement to turn things around in such a small time frame.

I'm no financial wizard (controlled costs, payroll, waste and sales budgets are all part of my job - not so much running a business finances) but that doesn't seem enough time to even be able to implement anything to prevent running out of money.

This is some seriously not swell news...

rooting for you! I love this website, thank you for all your hard work making it! hoping for the best but whatever happens I hope y’all can take the time you need for yourselves amidst all this. thanks for the transparency

thank y'all so much for making cohost <3 whatever happens, this is a fun website and i have greatly appreciated my time here! if the website must come to an end, then so be it. nothing lasts forever, and the time spent here and bonds and community forged are all valuable in themselves!

Metafilter is currently going through the process of becoming a non-profit and so far it's been a bit of a mess. Granted, a lot of that was the site's management insisting for years that wasn't an option and alienating a lot of the userbase that was eager to help.

generally speaking, if you want people to be able to give you tax-deductible donations, you need an external board of directors. if you dont care about donations, then you can be set up as a private nonprofit foundation, which has more lax rules for the board

voicing support for user generated ads. tumblr blaze has been really good for my business and i'd love to spend on an equivalent here. im also in support of the idea of volunteer work (not that i personally would, i don't know shit from dick about code) but as people have said, as long as it's informed i don't see how it's unethical. i hope the big backer returns and agrees to it

One option would be to AGPL the source and then the source would have some hypothetical value for licensing to people not willing to follow the AGPL's strict terms (most businesses, probably). Not sure how high the value would realistically be in the scenario, but it's an option.

honestly, the fact that plan B and C rely on regaining contact with your funder, which is basically the entire problem that prevents plan A to begin with, is really not filling me with confidence. this is incredibly scary. that said, im keeping my subscription up just in case. maybe it'll help? idk. i just really hope it all works out in the end.

thank you for making the internet fun to use again.

i also really like the "user ads" idea, but if that's a no go then how about kickstarting eggbux or something...? a kickstarter for the funding to get eggbux done.
could be a form of promotion as well, drawing in people who want a new patreon type site.

Damn...

I've been a cohost plus user for over six months or so now, and while things may not seem the best right now I'll stay on as long as I possibly can. I'm open to the idea of cohost user ADs! Wishing the best. :eggbug-smile-hearts:

Edit: Also thanks for being clear on NOT selling our data and going as far as clearing data by request.

we have tools currently in place (written for GDPR compliance) but they are basically the bare-minimum right now and require reaching out to support to get an export. they'd be getting a major polish in advance of the worst-case, but I do want to do more to make them available even assuming the best-case.

I'm not a Math Witch by any stretch of the imagination, but if I understand those numbers correctly, if you got like... ~$35k a month from cohost+ subscriptions alone, you'd be okay? and you're getting around $10-12k from that right now?

is that number anywhere that can be queried by a URL or something because if there was a colorful little dynamic Break Even Cohost+ progress bar we could share and fill up collectively I would not shut up about it

Would much prefer this as a temporary band-aid solution, instead of, say, a future of permanent user banner ads (yes, hello, I'm the only user against that particular hypothetical idea).

Pillowfort does this, and they've been beginning to break even every month. That being said, I have no idea what the pay for their staff looks like compared to Cohost.

In any case, though, 100% support - I'd love to chip in more on months where the progress bar is lagging behind, but I need to be able to see the progress first.

I love that we get to see the breakdown on Pillowfort. When I joined here recently I hadn't seen any major visual indicators about needing funding so I thought it was doing alright. I checked out cohost plus but didn't see that it needed it, just for support, which I thought I might do one day down the line if I decided that I liked it here.

If they show some sort of progress funding meter, no matter how scary it might look, I would feel more comfortable supporting the site so I can see the numbers and progress.

A thing I keep thinking is… one thing that makes systems like Kickstarter "work" is you're only charged when the total is met. They don't just go, give us some money and we'll hope it's enough. They tell you "this is how much per person we need, and this is how many people we need to do it" and when enough people have done it, then they charge your card.

I have a Cohost Plus subscription. It's not for the perks, I just want to support the site. I could afford to buy two Cohost Plus subscriptions. Maybe I could afford four. But me putting in another $150 won't save the site. 200 people putting in another $150 might do it, but me chipping in doesn't make the other 199 people do it. There's a collective action problem here, or a clapping paradox or whatever.

I am a Math Witch. I sit here and I think about how I'd solve this, and I imagine a box in the Cohost interface that asks "how many Cohost Plus subs could you pay for without it being annoying?". The Broke Furries on this site would put in 0 or 1, the Tech Furries "Between Jobs" put in 1 to 4, the Tech Furries Still Working In Tech put in 6. At the end of the fundraising drive the site figures out how many subs it needs to charge to break even, and it charges only that many. If it can break even by charging 2 subs from everyone who said they can pay 2 subs, it does that. If it needs to go up to 3, it does that. Nobody gets overcharged or has to play The Price Is Right. I think about this idea and then I decide it's probably too complicated, because it was designed by a Math Witch. The big red bar is probably enough. But like, give us the big red bar? Tell us how much we actually need to pitch in per subscriber to keep the community center open, instead of saying "$50! Or more if you can!" when that's not actually enough? Give us something to break the collective action problem.

Yeah, I'd like this too.

I understand not wanting to crowdfund and promise stuff you might not be able to guarantee, but having a publically accessible bar for expenses (even a manually updated one, even something like 'you can check this page on cohost for how close we are to meeting our funding goal for this month and it's updated once per day', even if it's not on the top of every page like wikipedia and ao3 do) would do a lot to help.
Like, even if it's on a temporary, month-by-month basis as a stopgap measure, it'd help a lot to have one around.

I understand things have been pretty rough on the people running this--I understand it probably feels like even if you /do/ raise the amount you need to keep everyone on staff for another month or more, it'll be difficult to keep asking if development continues to be slow.

But I think there are a lot of users here that really care about the site and want to know how they can help--I think a lot of people here want it to keep going even if you can't magically add 20000 new features in the next week. Even if it would just be paying for keeping cohost as-is. Even if you needed, say, 40k a month, all you'd need for that is 4000 people each deciding to give $10 a month.

Maybe none of us are the kind of angel investors with the ability to just toss $40k in your direction at the drop of a hat, but $10? I'm sure a lot of people can spare that---and even if the site were to go belly up a few months from now, even if you couldn't magically pull funding out of your ass, that wouldn't mean you 'promised on' something you couldn't deliver.
I'm sure no one thinks they can buy a perfectly funded website for the price of a starbucks, and singular people wouldn't be 'losing' that much, even in the worst case scenario.

Maybe there are some people who wouldn't pay for cohost plus as-is, but I think a lot of us want to help.
And this would help /us/ help you a lot. It'd help us have some idea of the financials in-between the bigger posts/without you having to make a big post saying it, help us know what's going on w/the site, and you wouldn't be 'promising' anything to the users that you needed to deliver on within a set timeframe. It'd just be people helping out who wanted to help out.

(especially since, as mentioned above, 'as much as you can' isn't very helpful if people are trying to budget around 'how much does this site need until they can cover the bills'--no, we can't singularly fund an entire website and can't fund it like investors but it helps to know more accurately so we can know if we need to give $20 instead of $10, if we should cut a bit more into our non-essential funds for the month, etc. 'as much as you can' varies based on a lot.)

Surprised nobody's mentioned this: a one-time fundraiser to get Eggbux developed seems like just the ticket to me. It wouldn't have to become a monthly thing like a certain other website. I suppose I'm not as Kickstarter allergic as others, but we know the product in question is more than halfway to the finish line and can presumably be finished by the year's end. I think people quickly seeing that ROI would mean only good things for Cohost.

the big risk here is the ever looming question. if eggbux isn't enough, we've lit everyones cash on fire. not to toss this idea out the window, but it's one we have to consider very carefully

I think eggbux/subscription is a deliverable product that people see as something they want out of the site. If the site still doesn't make enough money then people may have to leave the team, but that doesn't mean eggbux or the site go away necessarily. unless cohost plus subscriptions drop suddenly or hosting costs skyrocket i don't see why the outcome would be the site going under, especially with another revenue stream.

to be clear, i was not advocating infinite kickstarters as a way to fund the company perpetually.
but in a scenario where a crowdfund of eggbux is successful but eggbux fails to perform financially (still a nice feature for users), i don't see the problem with trying again with another revenue feature. the next feature should have a higher chance of bringing stability as their effects compound.

I would gladly hand my cash over to be potentially burned for nothing if there's a chance of this place surviving and thriving.

Especially if there's a stretch goal of "Pay back our investor and go open source", but idk how much money that investor has put in already so could be me underestimating how much money would be needed.

Thank you for confirming if things do go south you won’t just abruptly shut things off and prevent people from saying goodbye/finding their friends elsewhere/losing their data: me getting really into vidme and having it pulled under my feet really did make me panic, so that’s mainly why i’ve vented about that possibility a lot.

Not too surprised about the financial points today, but honesty is really key and I’m glad you guys went and gave a much needed heads up instead of a situation where you would go “oh shit we’re outta money NOW” and have it be like blindsiding the userbase. I apologize if i’ve come off heated in the past; i do all that out of concern! Losing friends when vidme shuttered sucked, honestly.

oh, here's a really simple easy to implement suggestion: put a text somewhere that says something like "subscribe to cohost+ to keep this site afloat" or something like that.
there's space in the top bar, for example. i know you have strong ideals but please advertise yourselves a little bit on your own site!
i wonder if most users even know cohost+ exists or how vital it is for the site.
(or maybe something like this is already a thing and i just don't see it because i have cohost+? if so i apologize for being stupid)

FULL LIST (sorted based on alphabetical order in the codebase, which is what vs code gave me):

  • sending / rejecting an ask
  • posting / editing / deleting a comment
  • posting / editing / deleting a post
  • anything that creates or deletes a "relationship" (following, liking, blocking, muting)

it's hard to get an idea from just those-who-show-up-and-talk-about-it, but I really hope that (failing funder contacting) you can secure a crowdfunding route that doesn't eat into assets and ownership. The culture here is wonderful, genuinely the best social media site I've been on.

idk quite how to say it but i’m sorry y’all (staff) are navigating this really stressful uncertainty, grateful for your thoughtfulness and creating a rare website culture that values thoughtful interactions in turn and i’m wishing that the vibes take a turn for the less rancid as quickly as possible for all your sakes

thank you for always being honest. this sucks to hear but i'm glad there are lots of options BESIDES cohost shutting down, at least. re: the cohost not being everyone's full-time jobs anymore option, i am so willing to wait longer between updates if it means the site sticks around (while simultaneously sympathizing with The Horror Of Job Hunting, Oh God)

Damn, good luck. That's a very short timeline but you've got a tremendous amount of goodwill from your users here, which hopefully can translate into some means of keeping the lights on.

Is there anything that could reasonably be spun off as "small work", to be done in a contract or hourly basis with willing and capable people likely from our community? Things likely to have been done by volunteers in an open-source operation, but people on a trust (and HR/legal/NDA) basis with the team.

I'm thinking like, documentation, testing and test-case writing, report writing, issue triage and issue-tracker moderation, some aspects of site moderation, API documentation and design, frontend feature stuff, and other things that, while not Core Deliverables or Revenue Machines like Eggbux or the proposed user-ads (adbugs? eggvertisements?), are certainly appreciated and necessary work to be done.

(I'm on the outside here though, I don't exactly know how the operation is in Eggbug House, I could easily be completely off the mark here of course)

Hwoof, that's bitter medicine, but I'm glad things don't seem to be like- apocalyptically dire, I do hope The Founder turns out to be okay.

I would also wholly be in support for user generated ads. I think it'd be cool to see stuff people are workin' on, and know that it helps keep the lights on!!

I have no solutions or ideas or anything, but thanks for writing this post and being so frank about options and possibilities. I know it must have been hard. I think people would think a lot differently about the services they used on the internet if they had any idea what the associated costs and labor looked like.

i think

  • ads made by the users is great and should exist asap (with tags for nsfw/sfw as people mentioned), also do as Pixel Cats End and have a "your ad could be here! ads are made by users!" info as an ad itself or text near the ad banner to maximise ppl being aware they can purchase ad space. everyone on PCE is aware they can buy ad space and many do even just for fun.
  • you could consider a kickstarter or whatever crowdfunding to get by in the current situation.

Here to also voice my support for user-generated ads. I would be delighted to see stuff from other users here promoting their artwork and projects and even just silly stuff. Heck, I'd absolutely be down for coming up with my own here!

Really hoping things turn out well through this, this has been an excellent site and has been an incredible and refreshing part of my life. Thanks for this site, and also thanks for always being so transparent with the goings on.

[if cohost shuts down] the links would remain operational for at least several months since the cost for hosting a static copy of this data is negligible.

I understand that this is not the problem you'd prefer to be solving, but: In a worst-worst-worst case scenario, I would be willing to indefinitely pay "negligible" (a dollar a year or whatever? my existing AWS static site has cost me two cents over the last eight years, but perhaps it would be more were it not fronted by Cloudflare) to have the posts I have already made on Cohost statically hosted on the tombstone site. Is this a solution you'd consider? Although I do have the ability to host static exports of my Cohost posts myself, some of my Cohost posts have been linked at their original URLs in divers places offsite.

(I am fine going without an answer to this question until we get closer to it becoming, uh… relevant.)

this and, it is difficult (without, well, changing the image entirely through js, which is possible) to de-animate a gif on the web.
hence why the play/pause button on gifs is so weird and has a lot of asterisks

I wish I had any real solutions I could provide, but I can at least also voice my thanks for this transparency (and another +1 for user ads). This all has to be monumentally stressful and doubly so to stick to your sense of ethics like this, but I think you've also built the best platform on the internet currently. So please be proud of that at the very least. ❤️

upped my subcription to 20x.

And count me in the list of "would love to somehow contribute volunteer code/technical work if it ever comes down to it", like, genuinely. Cohost's tech stack sounds very similar to what i've been working on for the past 6 years so I feel like I wouldn't have much trouble getting up to speed even as an outsider. y'all know where to reach me lol

I don't have steady income so I can't actually subscribe but if there's ever a way to send singular small dollar donations to help Cohost continue, I'd jump at that opportunity whenever I have a few extra bucks laying around.

I really want this place to survive and thrive. It's the only social media site I've felt at home with and it's the place I'd like to put down roots in with regards to where I regularly post my art some day. I also would really prefer that y'all are the ones who maintain ownership of it as you're the ones who have made it the kind of inviting place where I KNOW the devs actually give a damn about making ethical choices regarding the site and user data. If ownership were to switch hands I fear it would only be a matter of time before it would be Cohost in name only.

I'm really rooting for y'all. Thank you for everything you do and I wish you luck ❤️

This is not me urging you to subscribe, but letting you know genuinely in case you didn't know: You can cancel a cohost plus subscription at any time. So it would be possible to toss them $5 one month, then cancel if the next month (or however long) is really dry.

Thanks so much for all that you do and the transparency here. No matter how things shake out you built something really special here that resonates with people (myself included). Will wait for the next update, hoping for the best 🤞

Appreciate the full transparency as always. Also, I've upped my subscription from 3x to 5x.

I know you're already getting a lot of this but I just want to voice my support again for user-created ads. I understand that pivoting the dev time to that is a tough call but I think it could be a fun feature after eggbux.

Honestly, even starting off with just a banner image at the end of the patch notes post could be a start. That way, there's less programming load. Basically just like "Today's patch notes were sponsored by example_user" with a means for them to advertise their work. Each set of patch notes could give a shoutout to a different person who paid.

Or even if it wasn't in the patch notes, it could just be a regular post from @staff or @eggbug. Those pages arguably still have "visibility", especially given the little window at the bottom of the page that suggests eggbug as a page to follow.

Keeping my fingers crossed for you and the funder.

I don't chost or interact here a whole lot, but this place is like, the only good social media that I've used. I contribute a nonzero amount of money to cohost, and I think a lot of that is because I've enjoyed being here, and I think a lot of people need cohost that aren't just myself. I wish I had a more informed perspective or any advice, but like, you've made the proof that there is some good stuff in the big bullshit bubble that is social media. I haven't really thought of it in this way much, but to be honest what you've done is astounding. I hope you can keep making cohost, but I'm not truly owed anything.

Okay, so maybe this is an actual take: I think user-made and user-funded ads (both, not or) would be a great way to help keep the site going. I missed user-made banner signature era, or at least wasn't very aware of it while it was going on, and it honestly sounds fun and...(dare I say it?) artsy?

Also, if people volunteer to do some work for the site, fully knowing there's no money coming their way for doing so, I think that's a valid thing to consider. Like, you've made something good enough that some people would rather offer their own time and energy to help maintain/improve it than see it shut down. That speaks volumes to me. This is a fucking non-open-source social media site that has a beloved mascot and is funded by donations, and people really like it! Who else can say that?

Best of luck to all of you, regardless of what happens next.

Cohost's problems remind me of what happened to Autostraddle, but not entirely in a bad way. Autostraddle is a longstanding lesbian+ community site with a devoted fanbase, donation-dependent finances, and a founder and employees who spent years trying very hard (though often failing) to do right by their writers and readers, even though that meant passing up the easy money and spending more money on things like actually paying their writers.

After years of emergency fundraisers, burning out numerous staffers, and various attempts at alternate revenue streams, they kinda screwed over a bunch of writers and then sold to a queer businessperson with an incredibly dubious business model (building a media and lifestyle brand from a single chest binder product). A lot of people felt betrayed after all that had happened, tore them a new one about the new owner and their weird business plans, and stopped subscribing (myself included). I personally wouldn't be surprised if the new house of cards collapses soon, too. Please don't sell, if you do, to someone like that.

The "not entirely in a bad way" part is that you've been much more open and, I think, much clearer-eyed about the problems and long-shot risks of your business model, including your dependency on a single funder with an unclear runway. While this post is very short notice to find a viable alternative, your funder disappearing for a month is a very unusual event and hoping they'd show up again is a valid component of a strategy that includes having existing money coming in and the skills to try other things. I also respect the hell out of you for having a transparent exit plan in case you do have to shut down, and one that sticks to the principles that brought this little bugswarm together.

Because of all that, I wouldn't look askance at one emergency fundraiser with the goal of getting a minimal eggbux system online. I also gladly cosign the user-submitted banner ad idea, which I think would be really fun given how seriously our community takes nothing. And I think having a monthly revenue goal meter as a constant UI element (without going Wikipedia-level) makes a lot of sense right now to incentivize subscriptions. I like how soma.fm handles theirs.

Finally, hey, you're doing really good by us, so thank you.

I'm going to be honest, I read the Defector piece about Autostraddle and I think a lot of it really echoed Cohost's financial situation, and I don't really mean that in a good way. It's scary how similar they feel.

+1 for the user made ads!!!!

i'm also not against the idea of you guys selling this project if it comes to it but just, don't sell it to someone like Elon pls 🙇🏽‍♂️

in any case, thank you so much for your work!!! and thank you for giving us the chance to be part of this site c:

best of luck and I wish you well. either way, thank you so much for making this site. I’ve had a wonderful time here and hold extreme gratitude towards this place. I hope things turn out in your favor

so so so appreciative of your candor here and i'm very interested in many of the ideas the chosters in the comments have put forth for sustainability..... very willing to pitch in for whatever will work, wishing you all the best :host-plead: :eggbug-heart-sob:

I hope your anonymous funder resumes contact. Like others here, I wouldn't mind user ads. I'm fairly new here, so it'd make it easier for me to find cool stuff. I also second adding a way to donate/pay without subscription! I'm not great at remembering things so I avoid recurring payments whereever I can. It's a bit silly, but I'd rather pay for a year, let it run out, and then renew it manually.

oh I like this idea, only thing I worry about is the "award economy" stuff like Reddit (tanks for the golf kind strainer :eggbug:) or Steam has.

Maybe if Plus awards were only shown to the user being awarded though, this could work

As always I deeply appreciate the transparency. But this is a really bad sign, especially with such short notice. The alternative options people are talking about in the comments here ARE compelling and I really hope that it works out, but I’m doubtful at this point that they can be implemented and effective before the ~3 week deadline.

The last financial update that had Bad News was extremely concerning and many of the same suggestions were being discussed then. I worry that the lack of evident progress over the last year or so (although it was for understandable reasons and likely unavoidable) might have doomed cohost’s chances at persisting long term.

The completed eggbux system or fully implemented user generated ads could have been enough to extend cohost’s lifespan. Unfortunately the tipping’s had all the aforementioned problems, and I feel as though user ads would require a much larger commitment of development time and resources. At this point I think it’s much too late to change course and devote everything to ads. On the other hand, I’m doubtful the tips (which by default have no transaction fee, unless plans have changed) would be able to make up the difference.

I think that if cohost survives at this point it’s going to have to be a big fundraiser getting money from the users. Either that or the mystery donor reappears and produces a round of emergency funding.

If I were in charge I’d say the number one priority should be getting that fundraiser up as soon as humanly possible. After that, assuming the site is still solvent? IMO, ads are likely to be the most profitable, but eggbux is what’s already been worked on and needs to progress to completion for user confidence to stay high.

After posting this comment I’m gonna toss another Plus subscription onto the pile, like many others. I really love cohost and want it to stick around.

Sorry about the pessimistic comment. I’m really hoping everything pulls through, despite my doubts. Thank you staff. I wish you all the best and hope for many more years of Cohost.

hoping that everything will be alright! i do like this site and i'd love it to stay, even if it has a 50% chance of staying or not.

regardless of what happens you've built a well designed website that clearly had a lot of care put into it (for reference, i think i've only ever encountered like 3 Actual Bugs and even then they were usually not even annoying ones). and of course the community and staff is great, i feel like everyone here is very nice and genuine and the transparency from staff is something i wish other sites had (learn from this @dragoneer :3).

i hope you can at least try to feel good, even if that's hard to do, for the next few week regardless of the outcome of everything.

What if official bootleg cohost merch?
Like people who aren't staff make and sell cohost/eggbugg branded merch, share with you some of the money.
In exchange, you promess not to pull a nintendo on them and maybe add a page with a link to their shops.
You get new stream of incomes, artists get new sales, people get eggbuggs goodies.

here's maybe a question with a short answer: is it be better for cohost to subscribe monthly or yearly?

also how does it work when increasing a yearly sub, does it temporarily add the difference as monthly subscription on top of the pre-paid yearly amount, until the yearly sub expires and then bill the new yearly amount?

if staff wants to come in with a proper answer, feel free to ignore me

but to my understanding, monthly is better. it is a more regular source of income and doesn't have a discount attached. yearly subs give them a big burst of money once a year... then nothing for the rest. yearly is better for the end user thanks to the discount and not needing to worry about monthly charges, but worse for staff for those same reasons.

as for increasing a yearly sub, i do not have an answer for you. i hope someone else does and can come help you out!

I'm throwing a subscription onto the pile as I've been meaning to for a while, hopefully me and everyone doing the same can buy a slightly longer runway for finishing features, running a kickstarter or something, etc. I hope everything pans out, I do love this place even though I don't check it every day.

thanks for making cohost it is the first website i've had fun spending time on in a long time. if you open up any shorter-term funding to get to a point where you can launch eggbux i'd be interested in contributing. hope it all works out (and also that your friend is okay independent of the funding thing)

Whatever ends up happening, I'm glad this site exists, thanks for creating this beautiful space. And I agree with what's been thrown out there, user-made-ads, I would not mind to see those. Thank you for being this open and transparent, I hope things work out, I'm sticking around to see it all.

I’m gonna be real with you chief, I waited 4 months for my application to be accepted, and I was told that the process should've taken a week or two instead of 4 months. It was even tougher knowing that cohost looks down on applicants who ask for their application process to be expedited, even though with me again, the process took a lot longer than what I was told was the normal wait time. I don't know if this happened to anyone else as perhaps whoever I was assigned to accidentally forgot about me somewhere, so I can't say this impacted the momentum of cohost, but I can say that this significantly reduced my desire to return to cohost ever since other platforms have started to pop up. Are there any measures that cohost is taking to try to mitigate instances of this happening in the future?

I did read the post and wanted to give my two cents given that I feel discouraged to support financially because of my personal experience. Back when cohost was taking off at least, people could sign up for an account but had to be put through a manual review process that was supposed to be one or two weeks before they could be approved to start posting and following others.

You seem to have misunderstood how the sign up process works. Unless it has changed significantly, which there is no reason for it to have changed because such a change would add exponentially more work for staff to handle, you weren't "assigned" to anyone or "forgotten" about. When you sign up for cohost, you are put in a queue of people waiting to be approved. The staff approves people in batches, basically saying "let the next x number of people in the queue in", when they feel that the site's infrastructure and their own moderation staff will not be overwhelmed by the addition of new users.

If you waited 4 months to be approved, you signed up at a time when there were a TON of people joining and VERY FEW people being let in per day. The only time in the website's history that was true to the extent of it being possible to have a 4 month queue was at the public launch where, yes, it did take a long time for many people to get in precisely because it was still new and they were being cautious about how quickly it grew.

They were also very clear at the time about how long it would take, regularly updating with how many people they were letting in per day as well as giving you the option on your profile to see how many people were ahead of you in the queue. This indicates to me that either you are lying about your circumstances, or you missed the fact that you had been let in, or you paid exactly no attention to the very clear and public communication that staff was making at that time.

I can't remember what the queue was like since it was a while ago, but at most I believe it was roughly 100 when I checked early on during my wait time. I did consult the FAQ which told me that approval should be under a day under lighter circumstances and around a week at most for higher traffic. I checked occasionally and still noticed that I was still unapproved during the various times that I've checked. I've noticed people who've signed up after me get approved before me.

It feels bizarre to be accused of lying. I'm not trying to attack the team, I'm merely informing them of my own experience to see if they can find any holes in the process and hopefully make improvements.

Assuming you mean your ability to post, we definitely never had a wait time that long. Lately, wait times have been 1-3 days max.

Did you happen to not have your email verified? only users with verified emails can get in to post. that's my best guess for a blocker.

not sure why people are jumping down your throat rn, and im sorry that they are!

I did verify my email early on in the process but for some reason the process did still take a while. However, having staff like you acknowledge it has helped me warm up to giving this platform a second chance 🙂

I'm still hoping for the best, but if not thank you for making Cohost. I'm so burnt out on corporate platforms that don't give a fuck about users at all, reading ASSC's mission statement was a breath of fresh air. I want devs to get paid a living wage to make something I want to use and moderate it like human beings. I'm glad I was here, I'm glad I got to experience it, and I'm glad you tried it.

And I will always treasure eggbug.

I'll be here till the lights go out. I like this platform and I enjoy being on it. I wish I could do more and I hope things turn enough for you to be able to keep the site alive. I'm opening my pocketbook each month and I've encouraged others who can do so to start or keep doing so. The team deserves respect and admiration for the ambition of this project, no matter what.

Now I'm not known to use profanity but SHIT SHIT SHIT FUCK SHITTY FUCK TITTY COCK! I may have all my eggbugs in one single basket and I really don't like Bluesky for hosting my comic. I've posted some on it and everything gets cropped and made into potato-JPEG quality. I may be waiting on an eggbug plush of my very own and I do plan to get cohost+ for my art accounts. Also I saw something about running adds by users for our own projects in the comments and I seriously like the idea, I'd be willing to have a sidebar on my blogs and I may even get some of my own for this very comic! Also perhaps opening a way for us users to just toss money at funding would be useful, like a communal tip jar for those of us willing to fund when we can but deal with low or unstable income at times.

Just a though, dunno how much it would help. Have you thought of selling merch? Set up an on demand store like redbubble (doesn't have to be through them, but they're an example). Sell shirts, mugs, hats, etc. Have the eggbug guy, or the Cohost logo, or something else silly.

Just a thought that if people bought the plushie, they might buy other stuff too.

I feel like cohost needs NPR or Wikipedia-style pledge drives.

I mean, I just bumped myself up to more Plus! memberships, but not everyone's in a place where they could do that. However, if there were some way to get $20/year out of half the MAU that don't currently subscribe, that'd at least turn that net income into a positive number.

Hrm. I'm hoping I did that math wrong; I was hoping it'd work out to closer to $5/year out of half of the MAU.

I want a vending machine I can push the occasional quarter or dollar bill into to support cohost, but those don't exist and mailing the occasional jar of coins to eggbug doesn't seem like it'd help anyone.

... okay but why is it that I found out about this post from a random recohost or whatever instead of seeing it on the sidebar in the latest staff post.

Like. You kinda should want people to notice the issues you're talking about here?

I don't want this site to fail but folks should be made more aware of this so people can try to donate money. I'm in no position to do so. I wish I was. I don't do much here but shitpost and maybe make my random gaming and emulation posts but I still like it here.

Also IDGAF if you add ads, as long as it's ads for people who are here and aren't intrusive garbage or promoting dick pills or scams

I'd even buy ads to promote a website I just can't seem to get off the ground.

Like. Come on. I need y'all to please not go away.

Thank you for this transparency (although wish it was linked in the sidebar maybe as I had to go hunting on the staff page); I'd like to think this is laying out options from a all possible outcomes way, which is understandably when you see them potentially something to set hares running. I hope the investor is well and responds again and that is no longer a source of uncertainty - and admire your commitment to making sure this is run as ethically as possible.
As a plus subscriber, definitely up for Opt Ins for ways to monetise and give you a more secure base, as this site infrastructure and those in it have really been a site (...) for tired hearts.

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