Daeren

Autistic, Librarian, Writer

  • He/him

Shambling pile of learned responses and special interests in a trench coat. Wrote and done some shit you might've heard of before. I was there when the deep magic was written and honestly I wouldn't recommend the experience.


jessfromonline
@jessfromonline

in an era of “punch a nazi” memes, it gets lost that even if violence is justified & necessary, it’s not itself a revolutionary strategy. it’s a necessary means of defending attempts to self-organize & self-govern, but without that, no amount of dead fash can transform our world.

killing a nazi doesn’t destroy the material conditions that lead to people becoming nazis. killing a ceo doesn’t redistribute the power held by the company. i’m not saying that individual acts of violence don’t protect anybody—obviously a nazi who is too scared or otherwise unable to terrorize a community is a good thing. but it’s not transformative. it may be a bandage, but it’s not going to change the world.

the role of violence in revolutionary change is to defend the actual revolutionary work.

what does that mean?

when a revolutionary movement attempts to establish autonomous neighborhood councils, or redistribute resources and the means of producing goods, the state will react (using cops, military, etc.) with incredible violence. revolutionary violence is unavoidable if a revolutionary mode of organizing society is to last—that way of life will inevitably come under violent assault that can only be resisted by violence. but that violence is a way of protecting the real work of revolution: reorganizing society to meet our needs & make decisions collectively.

moreover, when we systematize violence, even just in an effort to get rid of every cop, every fascist, every ceo, every nazi, we take on an incredible risk to the long term health of a revolution. history shows again and again that when you build a system dedicated to carrying out systemic violence, it is very, very hard to get it to ever stop carrying out systemic violence. how to defend a revolution from reactionary violence by global capital without turning that revolutionary government into a permanent executor of systemic violence is a historic problem which socialists are still struggling to find an effective answer to. this only makes it more important not to mistake the violence for the revolution. when we allow ourselves to believe violence produces rather than defends change, we set ourselves up for failure.

in the end, in a world full of capitalist militaries with a history of violent reaction to change, violence will be necessary to ensure that change survives. but it will not produce that change. building systems for organizing production, making democratic decisions, and settling conflict that allow everyone to participate equally, to give only what they can and receive, always, what they need—that is the real work. every ceo and fascist could disappear right now and without that framework in place, we would fall into the ways we already know.

when fidel tried to give salvador allende a gun, the intended message was not that that he & the Popular Unity party must socialize chile’s resources at gunpoint, but rather that no matter how democratically & nonviolently they tried to socialize those resources, history showed that empire would never allow them to do so without violently crushing that peaceful democratic effort. the CIA would prove him right in just years.

we cannot abdicate the responsibility to defend the revolution with violence, but nor can we mistake violence for revolution.


RatBaby
@RatBaby

And Jess articulates better than I ever can. Best I can say is that peaceful protest only works when the possibility of violent action exists, and that pure violence can only achieve violent goals. I remember reading somewhere that violence should never be a goal in a revolution only an unfortunate necessity.


RatBaby
@RatBaby

I'm not going to get into the history of how Buddhists and Buddhist spiritual leaders have justified war and violence because I am talking specifically about myself and my beliefs.

So as a Buddhist (lay follower) I am supposed to avoid violence, which like most practices is based around the core belief of "Living in accordance with the interconnectedness and interdependence of all things" but to me things such as capitalism and fascism are the complete antithesis of that! what is more violent then war? How can I possibly be a Buddhist if I am actively participating in oppressive and violent hierarchical structures? Shouldn't I be doing everything I can to resist and dismantle these systems? Wouldn't a non-hierarchical global society based around mutual aid be the end point of "living in accordance with the interdependence of all things"?

Some Buddhists have reconciled the beliefs of non-harm and violent protest with the act of Self-Immolation, which personally I do see as a violent act yet one that does not directly harm others. However as we have seen recently with the brave act of Wynn Bryce who self-immolated to draw attention to the climate crisis, it is an act that no longer seems to be effective.

My current conclusion to this is that the way for me to best practice my beliefs is to do all I can to support others in the form of mutual aid, resist capitalism and fascism everywhere I can, and when it comes to it, I will take up arms in defense of the revolution.


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in reply to @jessfromonline's post:

what exactly do you mean by "killing a nazi doesn’t destroy the material conditions that lead to people becoming nazis." in my head, material conditions are things like working hours, food, shelter, those kinds of things. i'm mostly familiar with the term from the context of mental health, where american mental health dogma (particularly cognitive behavioral therapy) treats mental health and material reality as separate, where in fact, they are obviously closely related and that person might feel a whole lot better if they had some time to relax instead of worrying about how they're gonna pay rent. so, that all being said, this particular line reads to me like you're saying "people become nazis because they are poor," which is something i'd generally find to be a really dangerous way of thinking about right-wing extremism. obviously fascism and other such ideologies use economic conditions as points of radicalization, but i don't think we ought to treat nazis as "failed anti-racists" because plenty of people are poor and don't become nazis. SO! i'm guessing you have some different understanding of what material conditions are that might include things like upbringing and culture more comprehensively.

oh! i think this is just us using these terms differently. when i say "material conditions", i am not referring to the conditions of an individual, but rather the social institutions that exist that produce nazis (as distinct from the liberal concept that people become nazis spontaneously through the marketplace of ideas.) there are massive institutions that perpetuate and encourage participation in white supremacy. dismantling those institutions--or even just breaking their strangehold on education, media, and other forms of material/institutional distribution points for ideology--is a necessary precursor to actually stopping new nazis from coming into existence. i draw a lot on Althusser and his concept of "Ideological State Apparatuses" here, which i'd be happy to point you towards if you weren't familiar and were curious to read more about!