• He/they

Tumblr/Twitter refugee, @KnightDusker


Norithics
@Norithics

And because I hate it when people only complain without suggesting solutions, here's a little primer on ways you, an autistic, can improve your communication with allistics:

EDIT: Alright since some people have taken this as a value judgement, I want you to understand right up top that it was autistic people who asked me for this resource. If you don't need it, good for you, but there's lots of people who did. If you want to live in a world where you don't have to mask, then as a schizophrenic I am right there with you but I have no idea how to get there, and it's a goal much further away than "don't blow up relationships accidentally."

  • Practice active listening. It can feel withering for an allistic to get absolutely no reaction from someone when they're talking to you. And unfortunately going off on a diatribe about something you just remembered doesn't count as a reaction; address the person's points directly, and then if you want to talk about that thing you just remembered:
  • Ask permission to infodump, and when you do, check in every so often to make sure the other person is okay or needs a break. Listening to you go on and on about your special interest, even if we're interested, is emotional labor, so be aware of that. Express gratitude, show humility, and we'll do the same. And by god, absolutely don't traumadump without permission.
  • People are interested in themselves. If you want to make friends, ask people about things they're interested in, and practice active listening. Most allistics will happily return the favor out of pure social instinct, which will make your special interest talk more rewarding.
  • Be careful using emojis. It is very easy to make your posts sound sarcastic if you use the wrong ones. Also avoid overuse of the same one; there is no singular emoji that makes your tone always appropriate.
  • When entering into an argument, the very first thing anyone looks for in your post is whether you agree with them or not. Address this first, or they'll be confused.
  • If you don't agree, respond diplomatically. "Nope" or "Wrong" or the like is the kind of thing that gets you put through a table iRL; don't say that. Use softening language. "I disagree" is fine. "I don't agree" is better. "I don't think I agree with that, and here's why:" is the best of all. Notice how the longer and more considered the response is, the less inflammatory it seems? Brevity is the soul of wit, but Longevity shows care.
  • No one cares what you don't like. I know this sounds super harsh, but it's true for allistics too. Unless somebody directly asked you, if you can't find a diplomatic way of expressing your dislike of something people are discussing, don't say anything at all; this will only hurt you in the end. If you must, just say "It's just not for me."
    But most of all:
  • Apologize and ask questions. If you're unclear about why a social situation went badly, just say "Sorry, I don't know what happened, could you explain what I did wrong?" and in all but the most intense cases, most people will oblige. They might need time to calm down, but they'll probably do it.

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in reply to @Norithics's post:

This is kinda getting into the territory of respectability politics... there's no culpability for allistics here and as an autistic person there's a lot here the experience of me and my fellow autistics contradicts.

Barriers to communication are not constructive to those that objectively communicate differently, and I am getting the feeling some of the inferences you've made about autistic communication are just as common in allistic demographics as well.

On a personal level there are a few things here I actively apply to my communication, but that's more like a tool I employ in masking, which is exhausting for many autistics and isn't the safe baseline communication for so many of us. I would advise you refine your theory here, as it overwhelmingly places the social burden on the socially disabled without a counterbalance for the reality that allistics are running the show, politically speaking.

This isn't a political statement, it's a survival guide. The number one thing autistics complain about to me is that allistic people operate with invisible rules they refuse to explain. So here I am, explaining them. Take it or leave it, it's no skin off my back.

Also: You think masking is exhausting for you? Friend I am schizophrenic, I'm pretty sure masking has shaved 20 years off my life at this point, but there's no world where I could just live unfiltered and still have any kind of life worth living; I'm sorry but that's just the reality we live in, and I've seen no coherent path toward anything else put forward by anyone, so here we are.

just saw this reply, so ignore the stuff i said about masking. i also apologize for the potentially aggressive tone i used, so ill try to explain my feelings more impartially.

to me, personally, this read as a 'beginner's guide', which is not inherently bad, but also isn't. particularly helpful. a lot of autistics who have these societal complaints already do these things, and so hearing 'how to mask' is not any more helpful to me than it would be if i, someone who is not schizophrenic, gave you, someone who has lived with it their entire life, advice on how to cope with delusions. it also doesn't get at the core of several things that we cannot change about ourselves. yes, it's great for overall masking, but what happens in a specific situation that doesn't follow the binaries you described? what if the other person lies when you ask about their life and you can't tell because your brain is programmed to register different signals than they are? what if they're subtle about their feelings and even if you explicitly ask 'how are you really' they just push you away and get angry from seemingly nowhere?

you are telling us how to do surface level socialization and masking as someone who doesn't understand that often times there are situations where people will not tell you how they're feeling even if you explain to them that you need them to explicitly tell you. you are giving advice that many have already heard and already apply and still struggle.

autism is a disability, like you said. but you shouldn't tell someone with autism how to mask anymore than i should walk up to someone in a wheelchair and tell them if they were just better at it maybe they could use the stairs.

Sure, absolutely, I can see why that's infuriating or humiliating or any number of other things. But the fact of the matter is, it was autistic people who asked me for this. Piecemeal, one at a time, every time they had a problem and wanted to learn. And I had to closely examine what was happening and figure it out, because I'd never consciously thought about it before. And for what it's worth, allistic people often fall short of these too.

Again, it might be "surface level" to you, but for so many others who are in their 30s and 40s already, it's vital information, and it's not written down anywhere I could easily post, so here it is.

i suppose so. i think the issue i took is with the language you used. tone isn't great for me (autism) and so your language read as very literal to me; if x thing happens, then its because you didnt do y. i think maybe using language that frames it less as 'heres how to be palatable to allistics' and more 'here are these things you might not know' might help with some of the reactions you're getting, because the way its written uses language that is usually followed up with a 'why cant you just be normal'

while your intention (and what most allistics would probably read from this post) was to give helpful advice, the language used is word-for-word what the previous reply said; respectability politics. appease the dominant socio-political group (in this case, neurotypicals), and you will be rewarded with better treatment. this doesn't register as helpful to autistics because so many of us are painfully aware that we are on thin ice already; reframing it as for safety or even just a 'here's what i as an allistic am looking for' instead of 'heres how to Be Normal' would read as less demeaning

Hm, yeah that scans, I got advice on handling schizophrenia from neurotypicals because schizophrenics who are functional are vanishingly rare, and it tended to be very 'tough love' oriented. I'll review it and see if I can change the tone.

yeah, that probably won't work with autistics, our brains do not build connections the same way at all. the thing that got me to mask was like. observing how neurotypicals do things. and then also weirdly enough starbucks barista training? turns out you can get a lot of free social advice packaged in a polite and empathetic way from workplace deescalation routines.

It is political, it's a heavily politicized part of both of our lives, it impacts how people think, feel, act, and view us at a broader scale. To say what you have said instils a politic around how autistic people specifically should be carrying themselves. You said you were tired of critique without a constructive element so I am telling you: this is not the way. There can be social education for all parties, but advocating for rules and barriers is not the same as advocating for open communication and compassion.

Also, it's not a contest. We both suffer for our own discrete reasons. You don't know me.

You can start by talking about the chip on your shoulder. Why do you feel compelled to advise autistics to fall in line with allistic expectations? Why do you think telling them to share less about themselves is fruitful? Do you not think the mode of communication that English-speaking allistics use is not difficult for people with social and communication difficulties? Do you think your advice is so universal that it services any autistic?

  1. Because we live in a world of allistics and I can't change that
  2. Because they asked how to fall in with allistic expectations
  3. This is literally a guide on how to make people want to listen to you more and not dread talking to you, so, you know, the opposite
  4. Yes, I do, thus why I wrote this list
  5. No, all autistic people are different; I wrote it because there's literally no resources to speak of that I could find and point the autistics that asked me for help to

this. you're making a lot of assumptions about how autistics think about things, why we communicate the way we do, and about what the 'default' communication method is. what you're saying could apply the reverse direction as well; meeting allistics on their level is emotionally exhausting for autistics in the same ways you describe it being emotionally exhausting for you. there is no perfect solution, no masking tools that don't exhaust us, and furthermore, these are all already assumed expectations of us that don't need to be spoken aloud because we already know them and are either already doing them or are incapable of doing them without hurting ourselves.

also; none of these get at the invisible rules i actually have questions about, because ill do all these things and then suddenly theyll break and tell me they secretly hated x thing i couldve stopped if they just told me, or that i wasnt allowed to do what they do for reasons they never bothered to explain, or the absolute nightmare that is job applications where you're supposed to downplay your own skills but if you do it too much they consider you a bad worker by default regardless of your actual talents. youre giving us instructions on how to do things that masking already covers instead of like.... any of the actual quote-unquote 'survival skills' we need.

i want a comprehensive explanation of all the ways someone can subtly tell me they dont like me and never will, or that they arent listening to me when i speak, or that theyre lying to me about something, or why they get mad at me when i do exactly what they ask and they themselves admit i didnt make a mistake, accounting for things like culture, relationship to the person, and context. you can see why thats maybe a difficult ask

if only. but because we don't have that, i'm going to have to disagree with your assessment that autistic people would be treated better if we 'just learned how to socialize'. every autistic person who masks perfectly and can read every social cue before it even happens who still gets weird looks or called a freak over the little mannerisms allistics expect is proof of that.

Yeah and I still get the fear look from people who aren't schizophrenics whenever I have a psychotic fugue. The world sucks for disabled people, wish I could do anything about it but I can't.

We already know them

Let me ask you an honest question: Do you really think I would have sat down and written this entire thing out if I hadn't had dozens of people who did not, in fact, already know them? Just because you know them doesn't mean that everyone who shares your condition does, and not knowing has ruined so many social encounters and chances at connection for them. For my part of course I tell the allistic person in question "It's not personal, they're autistic, they're not trying to aggravate you," but there's only so much I can do on that end.

The part that really gets me peeved is hearing "apologize and ask questions" like it isn't literally an autistic meme about allistics flipping out when they can't reason around why they're pissed off with autistics. It's pretty useless advice, in some situations it even gets you hit over the head. Rancid.

There are still people who are assholes and won't let you explain yourself, that's an experience allistic people have with other allistic people too. They might not be neurotypical either, despite being allistic; they might have anxiety problems or schizotypal or any number of things. Still, it's a good baseline, and if they won't respond, you never had a chance in the first place. Just how the world is sometimes.

im going to leave one more reply separate from my other ones; but in my experience, even if i follow these rules, even if someone is otherwise nice to me and seems to like me, i can tell that they know something's off with me. sometimes ill laugh at a joke they make or make a joke in response or ask a question to show im engaged or make the wrong face and they just look at me like im an alien. there is not a world in which masking is anymore sustainable than being open about our traits, because eventually someone will notice and hate you more for the mildly offputting things you do than any actual character flaw or social failing.

also i want to say. sorry for all the rambling. that is one of the many reasons i agree with your 'autism is a disability' thing; i have trouble getting my thoughts across unless i feel like i can communicate them perfectly, and that usually means endless replies and apologies and. well. this. its something im working on and im realizing in hindsight that this is part of that issue, and i hope you know i feel no ill will towards you specifically, i just disagree with some of your views on why autists feel like they get the short end of the stick socially speaking.

They get the short end of the stick because the world is made for cis het white able-bodied able-minded allistic people, that's just a fact. I'd love to be able to change that for neurodivergence, but other than "hey take it easy, I've/They've got a condition," I wouldn't have even the faintest clue how to accomplish it.

i guess so, but its been done before. the world back in the 60s wouldve had me killed, and now i get to take pills that make me a girl. its helpful to think about short-term safety, but giving up hope for a future where both allistics and autists can get their social needs met just means more autistic people are going to suffer without ever knowing why and believing they deserved it the whole time.

outside of the societal 'heres how to live in an ableist society', do you think there'd also be value in knowing how autistics tend to socialize? ive seen you talk about it before and you seem to be under the impression that our communication methods are motivated by self-interest, which felt wrong to me because i for one love hearing what other people have to say and like listening to others, but every allistic ive met seems convinced that i act entirely selfishly.

Yeah of course there's value in that, that's why I talk to other allistics about it. When I told them "Autistics affirm each other with related personal experiences without any other engagement signifiers," it was a real activated-light-bulb moment for most of them. I rebugged something to that effect months ago.

ok, thats good. masking advice is useful for surface-level interaction, but its. really hard to have proper friendships with allistics even when following this advice because fundamentally most autistic people are unable to maintain that level of masking for longer than a day let alone while also juggling the usual stressors that managing friendships pose to all people regardless of brain chemistry

I know! Most of my closest friends are autistic, and I let them "get away" with not following these rules in private or small circles quite often. Sometimes friends go a little too far, sometimes they traumadump on you massively out of nowhere, sometimes they take too much of the conversational pizza or go on a rant about something or don't check in with you. You let them do it because they're your friends and everybody needs to be able to take up more space sometimes.

i think ultimately the disagreements we have come from our respective levels of optimism about society. in addition to having autism, im trans, and so the idea of just conforming until i die sounds like hell. i cant 'just mask', i cant tough it out, because if its not the autism, its the very visibly trans face, or the voice, or my adam's apple, or my shoulders. i have to believe that one day the world will be better, because if i was just autistic giving up would make me feel awful, but because of who i am, giving up would kill me.

I think one thing that's damaged our generation (and thereabouts) specifically is that we've been led to believe that change happens all at once. You wake up one day and the world is better, or your transition is finished, or this or that. Things happen gradually, with concrete steps to get there, and you gotta celebrate each step or you end up wondering when you'll get there forever.

i know this. as i said, i am trans. i know what its like to play the waiting game both individually and politically. i am saying that i disagree on 'well i don't have a step-by-step, so there's nothing i can do' because yes, sure, you can't fix anything on an individual basis, but i wouldn't exactly call 'here's how to fall in line so you don't get killed' rebellion by any means

Saying I don't know what to do isn't the same as saying I won't do anything; I abhor wasted effort. Until an answer presents itself, I can't do any better than this, regardless of how much it satisfies my need for change.