GwenStarlight

Metroplex System

@GwenStarlight

Producing lesbian demons since 1993

  • She/her They/them

TMA, multiply neurodivergent, ancient by internet standards, poylam and happily married.

I was on Cohost from 11/04/2022 until its last day (10/01/2024)

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GwenStarlight
@GwenStarlight
OniLink
@OniLink
xkeeper
@xkeeper

yuzu got torched

f in the chat. settled with the big n to the tune of "pay us millions, shut down everything, never distribute it again". cool

one thing i see is "oh, they had a patreon, they were asking for it"

software preservation and emulation doesn't just fucking spring out of nothing, it requires people to work on things. it requires people to reverse engineer, to write code, to do tests and comparisons, to buy hardware and software so you can then tear it apart, and buy replacements

developing yuzu was effectively a job for people. taking things designed for one particular piece of hardware and opening it up to anyone with a computer, allowing them to be played, researched, preserved, experienced even without the required console -- that was still work.

and quite frankly nintendo can eat my entire ass. nintendo has explicitly called emulation nothing but the domain of pirates and constantly claims it is fully illegal. their money making literally relies on it not being accessible. nintendo can't charge you $5 + a $1 Foreigner Fee for lost levels if you can grab a copy of the disk someone saved 20 years ago and run it in something better (and more feature-packed).

"well they shouldn't have been profiting off of it" yeah, man. they should've been adtech developers in webshit making money selling everyone's data instead. you tell em champ

xkeeper
@xkeeper

the profit thing bugs me so much because you can look back over the years and Nintendo sure didn't care about "they were making money" when it came to other (fan!) projects

shit like this means that they don't have to take you to court. they send you a nasty C&D saying "hey buddy. those are some nice kneecaps you have. if you stop now, you won't end up like the last person" as they jerk their thumb over to the latest smoldering mess

or have we all already forgotten the "oh good, a major outlet is covering a nintendo fangame, hope you downloaded it before-- aaaaand it's gone"

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in reply to @xkeeper's post:

gull
@gull

maaaaan nintendo can go and eat ass for the rest of their existence. this sucks. this sucks bad and i am so sorry for everyone who poured all the love and care into yuzu for the big n deciding No, Fuck You, Go Die In A Pit

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ketsuban
@ketsuban

Dolphin and Yuzu have always made me kinda uncomfortable, because it felt like they want to be seen as not just legitimate but more legitimate than the company whose existence and creative output they rest on. Emulators should not have Valve running an ad campaign for them, and they shouldn't have exclusive builds whose only selling point is how much more pirate-y they are.

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xkeeper
@xkeeper

dolphin is a huge upgrade over the original wii in pretty much every conceivable way; if they want to be seen like that, it's because they are. it's straight-up better than the original.

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in reply to @xkeeper's post:

xkeeper
@xkeeper

that's what i've been saying, too. it's a smokescreen to make it "justifiable". well, they asked for it. no, fuck that noise, and fuck nintendo.

a friend informs me that yuzu wasn't actually able to run totk at launch (that was ryujinx). also ryujinx also has a patreon (currently ~$1.3k). can't wait to hear how they are deserving of it, too.

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deadryn
@deadryn

I think it had less to do with the Patreon and more to do with the TOTK leak and trying to link it to Yuzu. Fuck Nintendo either way but this is less a unique manifestation of their shittiness and more just the norm of living under capitalist IP law. Still sucks, but I think we all knew Nintendo was gonna pounce on any emulator of their most successful console of all time that they're still actively manufacturing. They just needed the flimsiest of pretext to get it taken down. Fuckers.

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xkeeper
@xkeeper

my not-a-lawyer take on it was that they went after the biggest because it solves all the other problems faster. like yeah they cuold've gone after ryujinx or whatever else but they're small fries compared to the big one (for N), and after their inevitable win -- because you can't win against someone with infinite dollars -- they could point at it to others and go "we already won"

righthaven had a similar sthick back when they were still around; they'd sue everyone, and then settle out of court later, for things they blatantly couldn't win... until someone finally stood up to them (iirc, the EFF) and got the whole thing blasted

but that was a tiny PR company suing over imagined copyright infringements and not one of the biggest gaming companies coming down with the full force of its legal department, so

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GazingShimmers
@GazingShimmers

Sorry this comment got so bloated, this whole situation put a lot of mixed feelings in my head so I just dumped them here.

Tbh the best way I can describe how I feel is finding out a family member you've had complicated relationship with passed way. Like, imo unlike you I just universally feel paywalled emulators and piracy services are cringe as shit. Felt the same with PJ64, felt the same about all those emulators on Android, and I feel the same about Yuzu. And by "paywalled" I don't mean like, donations, I mean like, pay for new and cutting edge features that'd otherwise be in a nightly build.

From what I heard ToTK runnable builds were paywalled behind their patreon and that's cringe! why should I have to spend money on subscription to spend no money for new video games? Especially when Ryujunx was already running it from what you said in another reply. Feels so grifty to lean people to paying just for emulator "brand loyality".

It's why my broke ass waited until sig patches and emuNAND instead of supporting that switch flashcart dongle thing with DRM(!) to get free switch games. Just feels a bit grifty to me, especially with Yuzu as I've heard o' plenty about them being shady and stuff with stealing code and belittling people forking their open source software. And ESPECIALLY especially so for shady people making an emulator that's of a console still on the market, even if maybe for another year or two.

That said though! My opinion on them is just that, opinion! I didn't want them to die. I never wanted economic death to emulator devs, that's omega terrible. They didn't do anything illegal (bleem was 100% a money making venture!), just stuff I feel is immoral. At the end of the day they were still making a software that's very much not illegal and made explicitly for use with your own software, even if you could use it for free video game.

Hell, I doubt if anything I felt about them even mattered in their choice to lawsuit, the emulator could of been free of anything controversial and this would of still happened because it's a switch emulator that can simply RUN their $70 game. They just dog after anything whether it be people simply modding mfing pikmin 4 or someone developing homebrew software to dump keys off my OWN purchased hardware.

To say Yuzu died because of something as simple as a patreon is giving Nintendo more nuance than their legal division deserves. They just see ANYTHING unofficial and assume the worst. Fuck this company, they're like the richest company in Japan and really doing this shit. I'm pirating your $50 remake for a game I find to be worse than what it's a sequel to, just outta spite.

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xkeeper
@xkeeper

i'm deffo the same way w/ some emulator shit. "this mac only one requires a paid upgrade to enable joysticks" yeah that emulator sucks shit sorry.

but overall i agree 100% with the last paragraph there :yeah:

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GazingShimmers
@GazingShimmers

yeah it just bothers me how nintendo emulator discourse can sometimes go from "I simply don't like X thing" to bootlicking so rapidly lmfao

Admittedly I don't follow switch emulator stuff much at all, as I do my game modding and my "be gay do crimes" on real hardware. But regardless this is a terrible situation, even for me since Citra is now also dead (same devs), and I actually used that one. I'm still grieving.

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xkeeper
@xkeeper

i used one of them for a little while with disgaea 6, because modifying files is a lot easier on a pc than it is trying to fuck with the switch itself (and i haven't messed with homebrew on mine in years)

and yeah, rip citra too. cool times.

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CaptainHarrie
@CaptainHarrie

From what I heard ToTK runnable builds were paywalled behind their patreon and that's cringe!

this isn't true! they had early access to experimental builds 1 week ahead of public builds on the patreon, but yuzu is entirely open source so if you couldnt give them the £3 i think it was to pre-build it for you, you could build it yourself for free, so it was never paywalled. People who've said this to you are being disingenous or heard it from people who were I think, a lot of nintendo fans wanna paint yuzu as the villain here for having a patreon at all.

Also, ryujinx was running it earlier bc they started patching their emulator based on the leaked copy of TotK, but the yuzu devs didn't start until after the official release, so there was a week where it didn't run at all! that might also be what you're hearing about, and this happened because yuzu was strongly anti-piracy (which makes this outcome very bizarre to me) and refused to support the leaked copy of the game.

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GazingShimmers
@GazingShimmers

oh, i didn't know it was like asesprite where you could simply just build the cutting edge changes yourself. tbh the way people described it they literally just gave exclusive changes to patreon only.

Admittedly... I feel telling people to either learn how to build software on their own or pay a premium is a bit much to the average end user (like there's a reason why my asesprite example works because like 99% of folks just pay for convenience sake, learning how to build asesprite even with tutorials took me a couple of hours!), but it's way better than what I initially imagined. I try not to listen to Nintendrone bootlicking, but even people in the emulation scene said this without mentioning what you added! Sorry if I was spreading misinfo ^^'

also, i had no idea ryujinx got ToTK off the ground because they got their hands on free leaked video game. like i still feel yuzu is still immoral for other reasons but those are other guys i guess are in the same boat imo now. It makes the whole "Yuzu got sued simply because it's more popular" all the more valid.

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