Sometimes gamedev
Obsesses over projects
Not great at doing either
Current focus is Psychonauts


Psychonauts reverse engineering/modding blog
jillcrungus.com/projects/psychonauts/blog/
Mastodon, slightly less seldom used
mastodon.gamedev.place/@jill

I was looking around cp_5gorge for fun. It occurred to me how I've never really fully appreciated in and soaked in TF2's maps, so I decided to load up a random map, turn off the HUD and viewmodel, and just walk around.

And then I realised just how much Valve loves shoving random nonsense pipes all over the walls of some of their maps. I think these things are all over certain places in HL2 as well. They come out one surface and go into another. No purpose, they make no sense, yet you usually just... don't notice them. Except when they're pointed out, then you realise they're everywhere.


Even the top iconic 2Fort spawnroom is home to a bunch of meaningless pipes.

Of course, the comfy rustic wooden parts of RED's fort is free from this phenomenon. But even within there, the moment you're out of the wooden areas you see these damn things.

The concrete BLU fort has pipes even in its main hallways.

In some places they make even less sense than usual.


This isn't even always consistent. Some maps have this in almost every room, others are nigh-devoid of these mystery pipes. Why? How did this practice start?

I understand conceptually why they do it - it adds some gameplay-unobtrusive visual clutter to a room that helps it feel less empty and more interesting. But it's strange to think about the level designer in Hammer, placing each of the prop entities, looking for the right pipe models to fit the pipes around the geo. The nature of Hammer means this can't have been a fast process. There'd have had to be some level of thought behind each one, some level of explicit intent. And that's fascinating to me.


You must log in to comment.

in reply to @JillCrungus's post:

Ah, greeble props, pipes are one of the more common ones. The process itself isn't that bad but maybe that's coming from being used to hammer for so long.

I think what makes tf2 environment detailing fascinating after someone pointing it out to me is that in contrast to the gameplay and player characters it's that the environments are still somewhat feasibly grounded for most cases, especially with how buildings are constructed and formed. Structures have supports that make Some sense and not, say, completely floating in midair. It's heavily stylised realism in a way. This also informs what would be inside them and what they would be decorated exteriorly, something that gives off "vaguely familiar" vibes, rooms that have some sort of function to them. Does it have to make some explicit sense? Not always. Just enough to blend in and make it feel coherent to the area.

There's a whole can of worms on detail density or how detailing can guide players to navigate through the map that I don't feel like I can elaborate well on, mostly from needing more experience in doing it, but it truly is a Lot to dig in.

Yeah I think it's really cool that if you take a moment to think about these environments you can extrapolate some kind of meaning behind them.

That was kind of what I was trying to do initially, I just wanted to look around the empty maps and see if I could put together any stories in my head of what exactly everything was for but then I got completely sidetracked by the sheer amount of pipes all over 5Gorge.

And yeah, I'm quite aware of a lot of the function and purpose that can come from detailing like this and I think it's a fascinating thing to think about and seems like an interesting part of level design but I'm a programmer, not a level designer, and I have never made a full level in Hammer and can barely even wrap my head around even just coming up with layouts for singleplayer stuff - I'd have no chance of designing a map like TF2's that not only serves as a multiplayer arena but also makes some level of sense as an actual location.

My mind wanders to the level design philosophy of GoldenEye (and Perfect Dark? Not sure if they used the same method) where the spaces were built out as their own areas with a realistic function and then the gameplay was integrated into those areas.

TimeSplitters seemed to use the same approach - apparently the artists would build the level and then pass it off to the other team members who'd then hook up all the gameplay and such in the level. (Makes sense given the connection between GoldenEye and TS)

for tf2 level design at least, the thing I've been experiencing is that you do want to iterate the gameplay geometry first before you start really digging into the detailing art for a level just so you can avoid spending time and effort on detailing that you have to scrap later, but you also still have to keep in mind what you want in the art later down the line so that you don't run into situations for yourself where you can't really explain away, like a weirdly shaped wall barrier to block sightlines or something, different people approach it differently of course but that's the gist I've picked up from mapping myself

TF2 very much seems to require locations built around the gameplay rather than the inverse though I'm sure there's a fascinating experiment to be had in trying to integrate gameplay into a location instead.

Games like GoldenEye and TS can get away with designing location-first because the levels are either singleplayer or designed around more deathmatch-y modes. Or both - pretty sure TS1's level were designed specifically for the multiplayer then the singleplayer gameplay was integrated after (I could be wrong, but TS1 was built just as a multiplayer game originally). And the singleplayer levels are often so disconnected from each other and lacking in continuous progression that you can get away with designing the levels almost in a vacuum (though I believe they were still working off the story outlines, and maybe a draft of objectives and such, not sure)

The location-first mode of design might still work well for something like HL2 though. I'm not sure where Valve fell on this spectrum when designing levels for that. Seems like it might be difficult to build a whole set of connected levels like that.