Masakuni

The little blue dragon!

  • he/him

(34/M) Little blue dragon whelp, wearer of many hats, enjoyer of things including but not limited to video games, goth music, sports, art, adorable things, cartoons and anime and other shows, etc.


website-league
@website-league
The Website League is a new social media project, built with the goals of providing its users a safe, healthy, and resilient place to share their thoughts, ideas, and art. With avoidance of dark patterns (as pioneered by Cohost; we believe they drive unhealthy engagement with social media), a centralized decisionmaking body, and a shared set of community guidelines, our core aim is to provide a system that is enjoyable to use, and free of discrimination, bigotry, and harrassment of all kinds.

What is the Website League?

The Website League is an "island network:" a set of small social media websites, connected to each other, and as a whole disconnected from other large federated systems.

How does it work, in a social sense?

Individual instances are run by volunteers, and their rules are based on a single core set of rules, derived from the community guidelines of Cohost, a social network many of our users enjoyed.

Moderators, instance administrators, and other users with expertise or valuable perspectives are part of a central decision-making body. This group works to find consensus on larger-scale issues, assist each other with moderation and administration workloads, maintain the allowlist, and resolve issues raised by users. League planning, rulemaking, and operation will be by consensus, and individual instance moderators and administrators will manage their own small communities.

Instances wishing to join the League will be reviewed and voted on by this governing body.

How does it work, in a technical sense?

The software used to run a League instance is anything that is both compatible with the ActivityPub federation protocol, and supports allowlist mode federation, which federates only with an approved list of websites. (Currently, this does not include Mastodon, as it does not function correctly for League use in allowlist mode; this is likely to change in the future.)

Anyone can set up an instance, whether it's for themselves, their friends, a subject-specific audience, or general use. Admission to the League will result in this instance being added to the centrally managed allowlist, to link it to all other instances.

How does it relate to the Fediverse and Mastodon?

The Website League is structured to function completely independently of the Fediverse, the largest collection of federated social media sites (which is mostly made up of Mastodon instances).

Single instances may choose to federate with both networks, but we only recommend this for single-user or private instances; users on such an instance must be aware that their posts will be seen by two separate bodies of people, with different cultures.

Why not just join the Fediverse?

Many of our users were or are users of the Fediverse; some had unpleasant experiences there in the past and would prefer to avoid it. The Website League is meant to provide a separate federated space with a cohesive, central set of community guidelines shared by all instances, which is something impossible in the Fediverse.

In addition, all League member sites must, as much as possible, disable features out of their sites that drive unhealthy engagement with social media, and which cause conflicts to escalate out of control and embroil entire instances or the network as a whole. This means no federated timelines and no metrics shown on posts.

What is your governing philosophy?

We will, as best we can, work according to the Zapatista principles of good governance. These are:

  • to serve others, not ourselves;
  • to represent, not supplant;
  • to build, not destroy;
  • to obey, not command;
  • to propose, not impose;
  • to convince, not defeat;
  • and to go below [and listen to our users], not above [toward the accumulation of power as a group].

My political beliefs skew to the right. Can I participate?

No.

What's the network's current status?

We have several members planning nodes, and will be spinning up a central one for announcements only; so far, it looks like GoToSocial is the forerunner for a best software choice, as it's simple to set up and designed to work well with this specific application.

How can I join or participate?

For those who would like to keep up with what we're up to, including announcements of new instances, we have an email newsletter (also available via RSS feed). If you would like to start your own instance for yourself, your friends, your hobby, or your community, you can join our Discord server. (Yes, we plan to eventually switch away from Discord, but this had the lowest barrier to entry.)

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in reply to @website-league's post:

I've noticed a lot of fedi operators will run Matrix homeservers as well, that's probably the "most correct" option for an IM platform to go with the archipelago but I'm sure someone's mentioned it by now.

I'll be watching that RSS feed and I might join later on! This is a really interesting project!

i was just listening to someone talk about matrix. i'm thinking we should actually take a good look at it because in principle, it fits the model. we're only on discord atm because of the extremely low barrier of entry.

imo keep the discord, even if you do eventually start a matrix. just make it very limited scope. the discord solely exists to help people navigate the process stuff and, find an instance, and get on.

you wanna talk about something else? website's right over there buddy.

now that i think about it. i'll be pushing to find someone willing to maintain mod stuff in the discord server even if we end up using something else for most of the admin stuff. i'm sure there are plenty of people already in the admin group who are still going to be using discord on a daily basis anyway so why not?

Are you okay with people sharing this on other sites (bsky, mastodon, etc) so other people looking for a new internet home post cohost can see it? or do you not want all that visibility right now?

i think we want to stick with cohostians for the bootstrapping phase so that we know we have people coming from a common culture because that culture is so different from everywhere else. eventually we will want to open it up to more.

I'm personally not opposed to talking about the project between a group of a few friends, etc., but yeah we probably don't want this making the rounds on other platforms just yet. Once things are a little more established, we can start thinking about sharing with a wider audience imo

sorry if this is a silly question, but will this have a twitter/mastodon-style interface with publicly visible likes and followers and numbers etc or is it more of a cohost-style "blogs with shares and comments and a few social features" thing? i don't know enough about activitypub to know if all of those publicly-visible numbers are an unavoidable part of the protocol or if that's specifically just how mastodon chooses how to do things. i know the post says it has "avoidance of dark patterns" but i can't see anything more specific than that.

in the discord server, there is an accepted proposal listed that defines this - far too long to put in a cohost comment section verbatim unfortunately but to summarise:

membership is voluntary and open to anyone meeting any of the following conditions:

  • anyone planning to admin/moderate a node
  • anyone who can bring relevant experience/specialised knowledge to the League

after formalization (tbd on what constitutes "formalization"), conditions change to:

  • anyone who admined/moderated a node at formalization
  • anyone currently accepted by the body to admin/moderate a node
  • anyone who can bring relevant experience/specialised knowledge to the League
  • anyone else agreed by consensus of the body to join the body

Why a rule against having a federated timeline? Either I don't understand the thought behind this or there's a misunderstanding about what that means

Edit: also I run gotosocial for my self hosted account and definitely recommend it for new folks, it's still very early software but it's infinitely easier to install and deal with for a small instance especially if you're just hosting yourself.

I think it’s an effort to not recreate The Cohost Global Feed. I know the mastodon local and global feeds are the originals but . Admittedly I could not express the distinctions between the two offhand.

That’s good to hear about gotosocial! The very techy nature of this project has been. Very intimidating to me to be honest!

My theory is that a huge part of Mastodon/Fediverse social volatility comes from the fact that instances are force-connected in an inorganic fashion that arises from the structure of the network instead of from user interaction. cohost having to make the entire tag system less powerful to stop harassment stemming from the global feed tag adds a bunch of data points.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the other half of the structure then because if it's all allowlist only setup and an island where the members are following each other, then the federated feed would only ever be the other people on the island network, which...seems like a pretty good thing to have!

Unless you just mean that that federated feed shouldn't be viewable by logged out users? Or maybe the structure is less of a true island than I understood?

Edit to add: If the problem is people INSIDE the network are using the feed to harass people, I would hope the rules around this project would require them to do something about that from a moderation standpoint and that none of the member instances would be at too big of a scale that this moderation wouldn't be feasible. I actually think it'd be a good idea to have some sort of user cap for member instances because the worst thing a fedi instance can do is get big.