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fat queer fox, enjoyer of music, hoarder of shiny discs, sonic and racing game speedrunner, hater of cars and streaming services



noiseymuse
@noiseymuse

Had an epiphany figuring out pillowfort and legit galaxy brained why it is so damn quiet.

The image above was mostly for me to mental map any issues/feelings about these spaces, they’re very ‘my problem’ and I cross off things as I figure out more about the sites and the admins as well as highlight things I really would like on these spaces to ask staff about.


That said, with the admins of cohost being very vocal about changes they would like as well as some design choices they have no interest in, makes it really easy to understand cohost’s direction and what it aims to be.

Pillowfort is harder for me to gauge, especially as I discovered the whole “can’t add to a reblog” that has made me understand why it’s lacking activity.

It HAS users, people ARE posting, but there’s little more to it than that.

TO BE CLEAR, not being able to add to a reblog isn’t the sole reason pillowfort seems hollow, but it feels like a fundamental design choice of the owners and if that’s their general philosophy on interaction within the site, then it helps me understand what it wants to be.

I feel like the admins are very weary/scared of perceived conflict and having to moderate actions such as a reblog chain getting out of control. That or they really like the design of dreamwidth/LJ but also want a reblog system without the risk of users at each other’s throats?

Browsing cohost and pillowfort it feels like my initial fears of pillowfort serving as nothing more than a gallery space are now very founded. Yes, you can 💬, ❤ and “🔁”.

All those feelings of “it’s like livejournal/dreamwidth but you can reblog” hit home so much harder when, yes, that’s it, that’s all you CAN do.

Removing the ability to add to an original post, also removed an amazing level of engagement that really MAKES people want to do more than “nice post 💬, ❤, 🔁, k I’ve done my daily browse here and had a small banter with OP…. let me go to another site.”

And I get it, for some people the idea of your post being taken out of your circle can be horrifying but that’s a risk for users to decide, the reward of starting an amazing chain of conversation and ideas, the bounce back of writers, musicians, artists and people with knowledge on said topics bringing their forte is ENGAGEMENT.

This doesn’t mean pillowfort is “bad” and indeed people are thriving off of being in an enclosure, however from where I’m looking it fulfills the niche of dreamwidth with retweets rather than reblogs.

That’s perfectly fine!

However to everyone who asks, and in case the staff of pillowfort are asking “There are people here but no activity?” it’s because fundamentally the site design doesn’t really encourage more than being a showcasing site for images, personal blogging is there and serves its purpose, but take away an ability for users to do more than look at and explicitly “promote” posts will make people FAR more guarded and more reluctant to share their interests on an internet that currently scolds everything in bad-faith.

I have no idea if they plan to change the design to accommodate such style of posting, and if they’re worried about threads getting out of control unfortunately that’s what moderation teams are hired for, and if users are worried about too much exposure I see no reason why posts can’t be checked as “opt-in” for engagement and additional open feedback with followers whose commentary won’t just die in the comment section, instead when they reblog they get to engage with OP but also their own followers to discuss the original post and elaborate more than “I’ll reblog this thing I like and my followers will have to guess my feelings about it”.

INHALES

At least this is how I feel about engagement on the site, it feels weird signing up, checking under the hood, finding a functional site that serves pretty well and would be suitable for twitter users who already lack the ability to spice up their profile page, though they can at least add a banner to the top, please pillowfort I don’t know why it takes an age to make UI more friendly to visual artists but I’m begging here.

But there are so many little issues that add up into a bigger problem. All of those CAN and are being fixed/looked into.

All except for this one, which I feel is a pretty big one...?

What would get me to use pillowfort as a main? (currently I’d have not much issue with both cohost and pillowfort, I….have the time…)

UI, it’s miserable, even Livejournal allowed custom main pages with imagery, it’s being worked on.

Alternate accounts, I like having an art focused account and personal account, hell wouldn’t mind making niche interest accounts, they need to be separate though. This is also being worked on.

Image handling, I appreciate getting a full image through click through but really hate opens to a new window by default and no lightbox-esque enlargement that I can click off and return to scrolling through the site. This is a very personal gripe, maybe others don’t feel the same way, if I tab out of your page though, I’ll peace out it's very disengaging.

If they have no interest in expanding the reblog system however I can only see it being a very secondary site.


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in reply to @noiseymuse's post:

Same, I like lurking and seeing how things function from afar, pillowfort is quite unique and has all the checkmarks to being a great hub so I'm deathly curious why it still hasn't got much traction. Curiouscurious!

i've swam in the same online social circles as the pillowfort staff for decades. i can tell you that the lack of ability to add content with reblogs is very much a conscious design decision that will never be changed. the site is intentionally more like LJ/dreamwidth.

pillowfort is great but i really like cohost better.

Yeah, I can understand longing for a specific type of platform with some updated features, it’s not a huge negative as no doubt people really want it. I don’t really know if what I’m talking about would even help others more used to tumblr reblogs/quote retweets feel like they’re doing more on the site.

I’m definitely going to ask and will respect if they’re just not interested. No harm in asking though!

definitely matches my experience of the site, i used it for several months but eventually stopped cause it just feels like theres nothing happening. artists use it as an image gallery which is cool but as someome who wants to also see people talk and shitpost and just interact that really didnt do it for me, especially since i'm no artist myself and felt really out of place. really wanted the site to succeed (and still kinda do) and been sticking with it for a long while in hope that some sort of feeling of community would develop eventually but after several months i dont think i had a single meaningful interaction so i eventually stopped using it

Yesss this is my feelings about it also, there are already gallery sites that end up just being market stalls for artists, I’m more interested in places that give everyone equal floorspace to banter and converse. Despite this lingering feeling I also would hope for the best for pillowfort even if its style of interaction isn’t for me, more options for posting outside of twitter/singular websites beholden to owners who don’t really care are good as far as I’m concerned.

I see it as a case of the kind of social media experience you want - Pillowfort and other LJ clones are always going to match that kind of interaction, which was less about constantly reposting/posting in an outward way and more about collectively socializing in comments and in communities. It's just a different model, and honestly I find myself wanting to go back to it a lot because while it is cool to look and share stuff, I liked actually following people I knew and talked with on Livejournal.

Understandable! It’s very unique for what it is and I can see the appeal for people who want a more enclosed area to interact as opposed to twitter that just opens whatever you post to such far reaches you cannot control.

I guess I’m bothered whenever people promote pillowfort and in the same post would say “It’s great I really don’t know why it hasn’t got more activity!”, while I don’t think I solved the mystery entirely, it felt like a glaring disconnect with understanding why places like tumblr and twitter are very active and foster interactive clusters more easily.

That and as you said, they likely hopped onto pillowfort thinking, and sometimes being told “it’s like tumblr but NSFW is allowed!”, which isn’t entirely the staff’s fault, they took great ideas from LJ and tumblr.

I wouldn’t at all want to tell the staff to abandon what their goal intentions are for the site, I find it rude to just walk up and tell site owners they need to make it more like “this other popular site” and not be a unique space for a specific niche of users.

It can just totally not be for me and I’d still recommend it as a place for people to post/find a community they can share interests with easily though with a caveat so people aren’t as disappointed.

Thanks for your comment! I’ve definitely lurked more than interacted so I needed some input if it was highly preferred to fulfill this niche.

Yeah, I definitely agree with you on all of your points - I think some people haven't been to other sites enough or been around long enough to see how every site's culture and communication and specific goals have evolved to know that there cannot always be one site for everyone or every thing!

Great commentary on this! I feel a lot of what you said hit the nail on the head. I love the site, but I have some similar burning issues with it as well. I'm sure there's more to what makes Pillowfort feel "dead" with an active userbase, but I couldn't even fully pinpoint what those were yet.

I've been trying hard to lean on PF for posting art and such, but I feel like the site doesn't foster interactions as much as other social sites (even cohost) does. A big portion I think is what you and other commenters said: it can be nice for content creators, but those who don't create stuff might feel out of place or bored. There's not much room for back-and-forth interactions with each other, and nigh impossible to speak directly to one another outside of a post's comment box.

Too many other artists I've followed use it as a secondary dumping ground. I've been on cohost for only a couple months, but the interactions have been significantly better here! (Also sorry for lengthy comment...! I could go on-and-on but I won't haha.)

I disagree with the value you're assigning to Cohost's reblog system. In fact, the way that the reblog system interfaces with the comment system is one of the things that's put me off using the site.

Back in 2018, there was a huge debate over the Pillowfort reblog system, which is how I ended up writing a massive post on the subject. I don't know if Cohost comments use HTML or what, so here's the post URL: https://www.pillowfort.social/posts/312460

Sidenote, to answer one of your questions in the image ("Why would I subject myself to the whims of a community admin when I can use and browse the tag of my interest easily?") -- you may not share these priorities, but there are a couple of reasons that might apply to others. 1) Communities can be joined and "watched" (or subscribed to), sending the community's posts directly onto your feed. Tag searches cannot be subscribed to in this way. But even if they could, 2) communities have the benefit of user moderation. Tag searches are unmoderated. This matters because it gives you a way to tailor your experience without the kind of tag policing drama that's unfolded on Tumblr. For example, imagine you're interested in bats (the creature). If you check the "bat" tag, you might find posts about bats the animal, but you also might find posts about baseball bats. Joining a community dedicated to bats the animal allows you to connect with the kind of bat posts you're interested in without the frustration of looking for bats-the-animal and instead having unwanted encounters with baseball bats.

Bats may seem like a silly example, but this same dynamic could apply to a lot of other things. For instance, a lot of people in the Cats community on PF are interested solely in real/realistic cats, not furry art, and if furry artists started using the Cats community for anthro cats, I can imagine there would be drama. Fortunately, with the community system, we can have both real-cat comms and furry comms, allowing users to select which type of cat posting to subscribe to, and moderators can remove anything that's not a good fit for that particular comm.

ahh you explained my thoughts well.... I didn't realise it was trying to be like LiveJournal (a site before my time so I'm not 100% on how it works but I was under the impression that communities did form, enough to have drama even)
I'm an artist for a small fandom and I was hoping it'd be a good place for my art/to build the community for MILGRAM on a new place
but nothing materialised
Like, communities feel like they should be more communicative, tight-knit hubs of a fandom/hobby but most of the site is communities made of up to 10 people that tried really hard to get an Umineko community running but then ran out of steam +9 months ago