NireBryce

reality is the battlefield

the first line goes in Cohost embeds

🐥 I am not embroiled in any legal battle
🐦 other than battles that are legal 🎮

I speak to the universe and it speaks back, in it's own way.

mastodon

email: contact at breadthcharge dot net

I live on the northeast coast of the US.

'non-functional programmer'. 'far left'.

conceptual midwife.

https://cohost.org/NireBryce/post/4929459-here-s-my-five-minut

If you can see the "show contact info" dropdown below, I follow you. If you want me to, ask and I'll think about it.


erysdren
@erysdren
This post has content warnings for: rant against linux.

micolithe
@micolithe

There has been some movement towards improvement in recent years, the popularity of the steam deck has been a HUGE help on this front in the past year or so, but it's a slow burn.

I have been touching linux for years. I successfully built someone else's code from source for the first time ever last year (it was retroarch, because the new version in the apt repos at the time I built the server had like no emulator cores available yet, so I had to go back one version)

It is definitely one of those things where you get back what you put into it, but yeah it's definitely confusing and frustrating how the linux system architecture is just Like That.


yaodema
@yaodema

any real contender for "a Linux¹ most would want to use" would need, at minimum, these things:

  • nothing big people want requires installing from source. sure, you can, but you should use a package manager instead
  • one, simple, package manager². one you can just search for stuff in, like on most phones, and nearly anything you'd care to use turns up. one that doesn't require terminal. Flatpak keeps getting mentioned, maybe that should be the one.
  • sound, and multiple monitor support, work on first boot (at least as often as on Windows).
  • more of an artist thing, but pen tablet support should also work with a simple install or out of the box, and for more than just Wacom. (I hear Huion plays well with Debians already)
  • settings and other basic stuff needs to be easy to handle with GUI or with right-click menus. installing a font should be simple and work system-wide. if I can't see a font on Krita after using your "font manager app", it's not doing its job at all.

bytebat
@bytebat

more ranting below


NireBryce
@NireBryce

the difference between distributions is largely just opinions about what software should be default, what infrastructure to use, and where those things should go

the difference between package managers is largely just about where to put the config files and dependencies for where the software you download is, and the infrastructure used to store and download those

it's not inherent to Linux itself

I bring this up because, if you go looking, you might be able to find, among the glob, one that fits your ideals. (and if not, we can have n+1 Linux distros)

but yes a big part of the problem is that the 'market demand' is low, because people who bounce off can always go to the other OSes. Chicken and egg. If you get enough to come over, attention moves. But that's not something you can ask of most people right now, until microsoft finally decides to make windows so unbearable that it's worth learning how a computer works just to be able to use Office Productivity Tools


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in reply to @erysdren's post:

I could not agree with this more. Linux desperately needs standardisation. Like, the main distros should hold a conference where they decide on the standard software packages they ship. We dont have to remove anything or delete anything. Just, standardise what a distro ships.

Also for the love of god we should just adpot Flatpak on every distro already, it makes Linux so much more usable. You can always uninstall if you don't want it.

Build from source or Command Line Install distros are considered niche in this case because they will likely never follow the standards set out in this hypothetical conference.

I adore Linux but if we ever want mass adoption, standardisation is a requirement, not a request.

Flatpak does not solve any of the problems, it creates more problems by entombing multiple copies of everything along with every user program into individual silos balanced precariously on top of the existing flawed system

it's a fantastic way to "solve" a problem by kicking the can down the road of tech debt another 10 years. this kind of thinking is why windows got so fucked

i used various linux distros as my primary OS for over a decade, but these days i just use Windows bc its a pain in the ass to get all the software i need to work on it, and im sick of spending my weekends fighting with pulse or bumblebee or what have you

i use my windows laptop and my ms surface for 90% of what i do, and ssh onto my ubuntu server to write code

There are some efforts towards standardization now, but it's still gonna take a while. The actually interesting distributions for non-developers are all based on Debian (or Ubuntu which itself is based on Debian), and use Flatpak for desktop applications.
PopOS, ElementaryOS, VanillaOS, Linux Mint (or LMDE) all share those traits and it's pretty great! The issue is that this standardization isn't exciting, and linux publications always want to focus on the hot new disruption.

this is exactly why i stopped using Linux as my main OS after 8 years. i eventually uninstalled it because i figured out how to do software dev in windows, which meant i could code and game flawlessly without dual boot

i wish linux was winning but everything you said plus wasted effort of all these people doing almost the same thing

It could have totally been a me issue, but the first time I used Linux I found it extremely frustrating and not at all user friendly. I ended up just doing what I needed on Windows with 0 struggle.
Like the general public can't find their downloads folder on a normal windows computer (even before windows 11). Linux will struggle to ever catch on it things aren't better standardized.

in reply to @micolithe's post:

I've been messing with Linux on my new laptop, and I honestly enjoy it, but I feel like before too long I'll hit the point where all the tinkering and customization gets old and I just want something that works, at which point I'll realistically hop ship to Windows.

in reply to @yaodema's post:

Honest question, no gotchas: have you heard of openSUSE? It hits all those points (YaST does a lot of config without ever hitting a terminal) - well, I don't use a tablet so I don't know how well those are supported, but definitely all the rest.

(I've used evey major distro over the last couple decades except for Arch but including Gentoo, and I've always come back to OpenSUSE when I'm tired of fucking around.)