OniLink

The Other Girl with the Gall

I'm Violet/OniLink. Trans and autistic and just kinda doing my best.

Views do not reflect my employer.

I do informative Let's Plays on YouTube.

You can find me on FFXIV on Leviathan as Satora Lahnsi.

I run @WoLQotD here on Cohost!

I also have an IC blog at @satora-lhansi!

<3 @Gleam-Oria @catgirl-real @ann-arcana

Script Kitty :3 θΔ

avatar and header image from In Stars and Time by @insertdisc5



blackle
@blackle

This is going to be a draft of a blog post I intend to write. I want to post here first to see if anyone resonates with what I'm talking about. Please comment if you identify with this, or know another name for what I'm going for.


You may already be familiar with that XKCD comic. Number 2347, "Dependency."

A precarious stack of boxes labeled 'all modern digital infrastructure', a particular box holding up many is labelled near the bottom, which is labelled 'a project some random person in nebraska has been thanklessly maintaining since 2003'

It captures a peculiar phenomenon of the internet. Much of it is developed by big companies. From the Cisco switches rerouting packets to the YouTube javascript running on hundreds of millions of devices right this moment, the internet is dominated by corporate tech.

But the thing is, despite it's massive impact, big tech is not the whole internet. In fact, we know that the internet wouldn't work properly if it was only the product of big tech. You need the wikipedia volunteers. The open source programmers. The hobbyist web-tool makers. The free ad-block maintainers.

These are the municipal volunteers of the internet. The roadside litter cleanup crew. The mural painters. And I think we all know that the internet would be a horrible place to live if it weren't for these people. The profit motive that fuels big tech leads to greed, closed-source code, and walled gardens. Every company would need to write their own crypto libraries. There would be no ad-free online encyclopedia. There would be no neal.fun.

I'm going to suggest a name for these people. "Netkeepers." A person who sees a problem on the internet that needs fixing, and fixes it.

But what motivates the Netkeeper? Not the profit motive, obviously. So what then?

Let's do a case study from my own life. I would describe myself as a Netkeeper. One example of something I've done is Blamscamp, a bandcamp-style player that you can embed on itch.io to sell your albums. I made this when it was announced that Epic Games bought Bandcamp. I saw that the internet had a problem—that bandcamp was a single point of failure in the selling-albums-online space—and I did my best to fix it.

I did this because I want a better world. I don't want it to become impossible to buy albums anymore. And if I can do my part to steer us away from that future with two days of gratis hypomanic programming, then I'll do it. I don't need to get paid for it.

But there's the problem. I do this because I believe in it, AND I do it for free because I don't need the money. I don't need the money because I already have a job that pays well. I don't need to follow the profit motive because I'm already comfortable. Capitalism isn't actively threatening my existence, so I have the luxury to spend time doing stuff I find interesting and important for free.

If I didn't already have a stable income, or I had a job that took all my energy and left nothing for myself, I wouldn't have been able to create Blamscamp.

And this is why this post is titled "The Netkeeper Needs to Exist But Can't." I'm not actually a Netkeeper. I'm a hobbyist Netkeeper. A true Netkeeper would be someone who could do it full time. Who finds problems on the internet, fixes them, and is paid for it. Not paid for each problem they fix, but paid unconditionally. Paid because the community has trust that you'll do the right thing with the energy you have.

So, can a true Netkeeper exist? Maybe. The only obvious option to me is Patreon. However, how do we describe what we're doing? If our Patreon says we "do random stuff for the internet," will people actually donate?

And this is where I reveal this is actually a manifesto. I feel like Patreon could work. We could make the Netkeeper real. But we need a better phrase than "I do random stuff for the internet." I suggest we popularize the word "Netkeeper."

Imagine a Patreon where someone proudly describes themselves as a Netkeeper. Every month they post updates of what they've been up to, like a Tom Scott newsletter. You pay them because you believe in them. You believe they can steer the internet in a better direction with the time, money and energy.

There could be directories of Netkeepers. It could be your job title. It could be how you spend your career break, gap year, or retirement.

But the Netkeeper can't exist. Not right now. The concept is knocking on the door to our reality. It wants to come in, it wants to become real. The Netkeeper needs to exist. I think we can all agree on its value. Maybe not on the execution, that could use some ironing out. But the concept, the concept is perhaps something we can believe in.


76f0e4667ed32667d2bfc063699b246e
@76f0e4667ed32667d2bfc063699b246e
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maff
@maff

the really fun thing about the “free software is load-bearing” is knowing all the places it pops up that you really wouldn’t think of.
There’s the common knowledge ones, that the PS4 and PS5 run on top of a BSD variant (I think FreeBSD but I could be wrong), or that Mac OS is derived from a BSD, or that netflix’s servers all run BSD, and I would be remiss to mention Android being Linux-based, but then there’s the things you don’t think about.
Linux has been present in things like set top boxes and DVD players as far back as the early 2000s. Every consumer router/modem/wifi AP runs a variant of Linux (some even come with literally just OpenWRT and maybe some vendor customisations), and most of the enterprise ones do (Cisco Meraki products all run a derivative of OpenWRT, even). Juniper equipment runs their FreeBSD derivative JunOS.
Any Intel-based machine that has the management engine coprocessor built in? That runs MINIX, which gave Andrew Tanenbaum a huge ego. You may also be surprised to learn that regardless of what your phone itself runs, the cellular modem inside it is probably running Linux! Hell, the PinePhone demonstrated this wonderfully when someone found a vulnerability in software running on the baseband, and was able to get root on that. My understanding is that modern networking cards (WiFi/Ethernet) all also run some form of embedded Linux, though I don’t remember where I found that out.
That’s just conventional operating systems. In microcontrollers, there’s FreeRTOS, Zephyr, NuttX, RT-Thread, a bunch more, which all can be found in microcontrollers used in commercial products, from the immediate thought of IoT devices, to stuff like dishwashers. A market study from 2019 done by “AspenCore” showed that 21% of respondents were using embedded linux, followed by 19% using an in-house or custom OS, then 18% using FreeRTOS.
The very funny part comes in when an open-source product is used as part of bootstrapping something commercial and proprietary. In a past job, I worked on the software security team for some widely-deployed Windows-based embedded machines, but those machines needed disk encryption beyond what was available in Windows. The solution? A linux-based preloader environment that boots first to do all the setup.
This was just an overview of operating systems. The number of commercial products and proprietary software out there using free software as a component is nearly immeasurable, and you might not find out until something breaks or a license change comes up and someone from a company using the software opens a bug report to complain.


nex3
@nex3

if I were paid a fraction of a percent of the value that my volunteer labor has produced for private corporations, I would easily be wealthy enough to never need to work again. and what would I do with my spare time? write more software to benefit everyone! but instead I have to split my time between open source and internal work at an evil corporation, and even that is a pretty lucky state of affairs relative to most maintainers


sudocurse
@sudocurse

i just woke up and i'm still horizontal but lets catch everyone up: this is part of a long tradition of healthy conversation about the sustainability of FOSS funding and the volunteer maintainers that keep the internet running. the paradox is that where the very same economic system that benefits from free software fails to provide for those who create it.

the conversation around FOSS funding

foundations like Linux and Apache Software provide another model to consider, but 2/3 of the Linux Foundation's $6M/year budget comes from 8 individuals. don't get me wrong; i like the NetKeeper concept. but we live in an expensive society that works very hard to bog us down.

along with the software sustainability conversation we also have to talk about the maintainers-- how they're getting paid and how they're avoiding or healing from burnout. @zkat had a really good post some years ago summing up a system involving licenses and Patreon (or similar) to bootstrap your opensource work. unfortunately it doesnt always pan out like this.

other platforms like Open Collective and Github sponsors exist but you have to do all the legwork required to actually attract and persuade funders; finding the kind of deep pockets that can actually make your FOSS income survivable is another beast.

the conversation around getting companies to fund FOSS

if you want to get companies who benefit from FOSS to pay for it (good luck!), you have to consider the mechanisms through which you can do that: previous work trying to deal with this has focused on incorporating FOSS funding into corporate accounting, and using licenses as enforcement (both pretty lofty goals given the current landscape imo). licensing also requires a lot of work to uncover loopholes. policy work could help change the landscape but i haven't seen any meaningful considerations in that direction.

the open source projects that have been the most successful in drumming up funding from big tech are the ones that have had entire companies, often VC-backed, built around offering services and enterprise support. given the current economic situation, in which borrowing money with leverage is no longer practically free, it is quite likely that the current era of VC-funded open source technology is over.

so what's left? often it's literally just having to carve out time to ask people for money. i currently participate in a volunteer software project to provide data tools to tenant organizers and we're in the middle of begging funders for money; our work is inherently adversarial and if landlords decided to assemble against us, their capacity of financialization with their collateral means a wildly magnified resources would be at their disposal. and have you ever been or seen a core maintainer of a project that caught the receiving end of a conspiracy theory or misguided online moral crusade? or literally just any popular media software? a thing about working on the commons is that, despite how rewarding it can be, having to deal with the public also has the capacity to really suck.

the visibility of digital labor

which also brings me to a related topic: unseen digital labor. the people doing the moderation work to maintain their discords, the cleanup work people running a community have to field after instances of harassment. the posts people write to educate the ignorant. the people writing committee letters to try and ask members of a project for accountability, or the glue work required to get your project's headass BDFL to sit the fuck down.

[edit: a comment on the OP mentions the similarities between this conversation and the digital labor that content creators do. this of course is a whole topic in and of itself]

it's probably not a surprise to anyone here that this work is and always has been deprioritized. it's disproportionally carried out by people in marginalized groups. the first step to addressing any of this is to make sure this on-the-ground community labor is seen and valued alongside the technical contributions that's needed to make all our digital commons infrastructure happen.

prior work


SamKeeper
@SamKeeper

I know I just got through complaining about people not putting any thought into where their money is going and I stand by that sentiment but also:

it's maddening being aware of the gaping void in all these conversations where things like "state funding" or "worker organization" used to be

not to be like "we used to be a real country" but, didn't we? we used to have funding for both science and the arts. even if you're not as much of a sicko for central planning as I, a communist, am, surely it's apparent that there's a bunch of critical goods for society that go beyond the liberals' beloved "firefighters and roads" that The Free Market just can't handle on its own? why shouldn't that be handled through a state authority? and tech companies get state funding, which, to quote The Grapes of Wrath, "ain't that relief?"

or hell if that seems too inconceivable, here's another perspective: if FOSS is really so critical to the infrastructure of everything... that kinda sounds like leverage to me. it kinda sounds like an arsenal. like if there was an actual conception of netkeepers as workers whose labor is being exploited by the corporations that depend on FOSS, you would immediately have some pretty impressive power to shut shit down.

"this is naive for x y z reasons" yeah sure fine, it's as naive as saying "comics creators should unionize". it's more complicated than that, obviously, particularly because a lot of these are fields that CAN'T unionize in a traditional way per US law. this isn't me producing One Simple Trick to fixing all the problems, that'd be silly.

but 30, 40 years ago, the possibility of state intervention and worker action was part of the conversation on issues like this... and now it's just completely absent. I think that's also pretty silly!


ann-arcana
@ann-arcana

if FOSS is really so critical to the infrastructure of everything... that kinda sounds like leverage to me. it kinda sounds like an arsenal.

This is where it boils down to me more and more as I get older.

Programmers successfully liberated the means of production, but then got convinced that the noble goal was to then go back to work for the bosses for free.

It's insanity. "Free software" is one of the greatest pieces of doublethink to come out of the 20th century, and also one of the most successful. It's literally some "freedom is slavery" level rhetorical doublespeak, and it fucking worked, and now it's literally goddamn killing people.

But if you put out your code with a non-commercial license, a million nerds will firebomb your website.


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in reply to @blackle's post:

oh hey i found the comment box

anyways, i very much resonate with this concept, especially since this, albeit a bit expanded, is pretty much the only tech work i could properly do; random bits of upkeep and little solutions to problems full time, and while that's not really possible right now as you mentioned, i'm sure i'm not the only one

i feel like this concept quietly and incompletely carries over to content. not in a #content way, but the tireless work of artists and creatives just making things for the sake of creating, and then sharing them with people. These innocent "look what i made!"s with no profit motive mean that there is an internet to visit.

this is neat. it also makes me think that, aside from just the value of this type of work, there’s some power there, too. Talking about steering the internet in a better direction…can organizing the people who do this work lead to more opportunities for collective action and help counterbalance the worst impulses of big tech? i dunno, but i’m into it

like some Tolkien-ass wizard shit

like in your day-to-day life you might never encounter one but you know they're real, they go and do as they seem to please but they remain unobtrusive, helpful even; maybe you don't take them seriously because most of the "magic" they show off is talking to animals and doing party tricks, but the truth is they are literally gods and if you shit on the floor in their house (and it is their house) you will have just enough time to reflect on the enormity of your mistake before they end you

"do not meddle in the affairs" indeed

the term for this that came to mind from past experience is “public interest technologist”, which exists as a role one can have and usually involves grant-based funding models but sometimes involves people like eff or newsroom employees getting salaried work for it

Heck yes. I would love reading blog entries from someone like this, in my mind it'd be like the Dolphin blog's updates where they try their best to talk about the history of a problem and hype up the solution.

This idea of a "Netkeeper" feels along the lines of a public service, like firefighters. They're paid regardless of how many fires they put out, because if they weren't, they wouldn't be around when a fire actually started.

one wrinkle: i recall a study or something from many years ago that suggested that paying folks who e.g. already work on free software... could make them do less of it, because it changed the incentives. they stopped doing it for passion and started doing it for the money, or something.

yeah, I feel like that means the compensation has to be unconditional. i.e. not based on performance. This honestly rules out patreon because you have to appease the random people who are giving you money. The only other source of money I see is universal basic income (god please) or grants of some kind.

the Netkeeper needs to exist but can't (bc capitalism) 😔

oh yeah i feel like this kinda thing could absolutely be something i could fall into if i wasn't constantly just so burned out on tech by barely managing to singlehandedly keep an entire research group running

(also academic pay is a joke if you're not like an actual department head or better lol, but that's unrelated)

i kinda think that this is like, one of the killer justifications for something like UBI in the short term. aside from just the humaneness of providing basic needs to everyone in our society (etc etc)

if people didn't need to work shitty dead end exploitative jobs or burn themselves out on grindcore culture, i wonder if we would see an explosion of these types of creative, personal interest projects that just add value to an entire community

and yeah i know UBI or whatever thing probably isn't the totally problem free ultimate answer to everything, but it feels like it's the one within reach, even if only barely - places keep trialling systems like it on a small scale

but i'm not really here to say i know how to fix an entire economy, i can barely even manage my own life lol, so i'm just kinda pulling out UBI as something simple that we're all probably kind of familiar with the idea of

anyway, i just... feel like we would see an explosion in this kind of widespread community improvement, including roles much like a netkeeper, if we wre able to get into a position where people's survival wasn't under constant threat by Jobs™... like, it could immediately pay for itself in so many ways across so many fields that aren't even just computers, idk

big tech is not the whole internet.

I thought google+amazon+meta+microsoft - they own the internet - they used their money to do trans-continental wires on bottom of ocean, and they allow us "common people" to use them.

A true Netkeeper would be someone who could do it full time. Who finds problems on the internet, fixes them, and is paid for it.

hmm... this is description of how google reward people who find bugs in their software, not even fix them just find.
Many large opensource software also do reward "fixing" problems/bugs.

We could make the Netkeeper real.
But the Netkeeper can't exist. Not right now.

If you make this into Youtube content - "daily dose of how we fix the internet" - and if this content gather attention of society - then it can become "full time job".

like a Tom Scott newsletter.

There hundreds and thousand people/youtube-content-ideas who started at same time and quit after few month/years.
Modern youtubers who "got to success from nothing" - recently I seen this https://youtu.be/3vhPraFZxCc - his business-development relevant to context of "fixing internet-infrastructure" as "content idea".

an open secret in infosec is also that bug bounty programs are by and large a fucking joke and essentially just good PR + insurance against damage caused by the worst vulns. you're lucky if a severe but non-critical vulnerability is going to pay you out enough to make rent, and if its less priority than that, your disclosure email is probably gonna get rewarded with a little thank you note at best

edit: not trying to start a fight so i'm putting it in an edit but the two claims about bug bounties in the reply are also... not true. also, framing this discussion as an excuse to get people to donate even more free labor creating content is maybe one of the less good ideas i've seen on this website lmao

Definitely resonates!

I do think that foundations that can get donation grants and sponsorships, and then evaluate the relative impact of the netkeeper’s projects are something that would make me feel more comfortable supporting them.

The “unconditional” bit is where I get a lot of worry. We’ll likely never see a global UBI that we can rely on (and recruiting Netkeepers from only those countries seems counter productive), and there are also likely to be bad actors that need curbing within such a system.

One of things this makes me think about is the concept of the small town handed man. The idea of someone rolling up with a belt of tools but for a website is really funny to me. But another thought that strikes me out of the this image, is how online we are in someways limited in that things either get done thru and monetary transactions or someone doing something out of the goodness of their heart. There is no room for any other kind of support. If someone comes over to help you out, even if it's a paid craft like a plumber, you don't just offer cash for services. You offer a drink or use of your bathroom. If you drive someone to the airport theres maybe a promise to get lunch or drive you when you need it. I dont really have a grad conclusion but you raise a lot of great points.

Yeah I resonate with this, however I do not believe this should be a matter of charity.

The internet is a public good, those who maintain it perform a public service and they should be paid as public servants.

It's kind of the reverse of a sentiment I've had for years but it's a bit hard to clearly write down. Basically, we know and are regularly reminded that closed source software can never be trusted. The only software acceptable for use by public entities is open source. If that software does not exist it's the government's job to make it exist, which means pay people to create and maintain it. Of course people will point that costs money, but good news we can just use the money we are already paying corporations for software that, in many cases, is now getting worse instead of better at doing it's job.

in reply to @76f0e4667ed32667d2bfc063699b246e's post:

One thing that is often left out the software engineering history books is how much it started as an open source endeavour in the 60s and 70s until the likes of Jobs but more specifically Gates came in and just outright stole and patented code bases left and right.

That is so far from the truth though. All that "freely-exchanged software" was being funded, either by large capitalists like IBM and AT&T or by the state via grants to secondary institutions like MIT and Stanford. It wasn't "open source" the way we know it, it wasn't random people doing work outside work hours for free, these people were being paid to do that, or were at least supported as students! Netlib was and is underwritten by Oak Ridge! You can criticize Microsoft and Apple for a lot of things but "stealing and patenting code" is just ???

In fact, "they were being paid to work on it" was true for most of that infrastructure for a very long time. It's only been since really the dot-com crash that the modern situation of People Doing Critical Infrastructural Work For Free has been normalized; it's not coincidence that that lines up with that start of the decline of personal websites, forums, IRC, Usenet, all that stuff: People were being paid to work on that stuff! Companies maintained those servers!

Yeah, I definitely wrote this poorly with a late night, hot-take poster brain, and didn't have my facts straight. I was trying to convey the antagonism of Gates with the Hobbyist Computing Community back in the 70s(and the backlash to Gates' infamous Open Letter to Hobbyists), and I think I got some wires crossed with the later anti compete stuff in the late 80s early 90s(also urban legends about them stealing the OSs from Xerox, instead of cloning it or buying a smaller one for a pittance which is probably where I got that original statement from). I think Lee Felenstein had a much better nuanced take that this was much more of a symbiotic relationship between the hobbyist scene of the time and major corpos even though Gates tried to portray it as parasitic. I believe the great debate was that since all this was built on public funds through DARPA and NSF shouldn't they be free?(not to mention the dubious amount of computing time early Microsoft "borrowed" on Honeywell and Harvard computers also paid for with DARPA/NSF Funds/Grants) I just get frustrated that these "self-made companies" tend to act like they built everything from scratch when there was probably a government program behind them.

Sidenote: where can I get some gluten free gluten? I have celiac disease and I need a real slice of NY style pizza.

expanding on the other replies; to quote alan kay:

Parc was "effectively non-profit" because of our agreement with Xerox, which also included the ability to publish our results in public writings (this was a constant battle with Xerox). In the end, all the technologies got out in useful ways. ARPA was non-profit, but had many commercial spin-offs, and this was regarded as "the way things should be" to get things out in the world in quantity. Really fundamental inventions are too large for single human organizations to deal with -- what one wants is a reasonable balance between what is freely shared, and how things can be made from them.

(from http://worrydream.com/2017-12-30-alan/)

i dont always quite believe that kay has a complete analysis about the industry's role in modern capitalism but his perspective does come from someone who's done a lot of very foundational computing work funded by large organizations

i do note that despite being free software, clang and llvm were heavily invested in by apple, which is about as far away from "random person in nebraska" as you can get

free software isn't all hobby projects. the load-bearing jenga block is made up of free software that is hobby projects

I was thinking…this kind of Netkeeper functions similarly to citizens in citizen science. There’s lots of projects out there, from taking ocean samples to installing backyard cameras, that people do to advance science and to give the project a broader range of data to work with.

One scientist can’t track as effectively the movement of a population of deer through a neighborhood alone; but they can ask citizens to install cameras or take a picture of deer when they see them, and ask folks to help them identify when one deer in pictures is the same deer.

I feel like there’s two kinds of Netkeepers at the moment; people who are doing volunteer work because they feel it connects to a value for them, and people who are doing work that pays them exploitative wages because they, for whatever reason, cannot find other work. I’m not sure if the solution in this case would be to pay the volunteers, but rather make sure everyone could live comfortably.

it's beside the point but uhhhh sorry core js guy but Russian law is correct, you should probably be responsible for when you hit people with your car, dark clothes and highways are not suitable excuses

it is interesting that that doesn't really change the issue, though. 50-80% of the internet probably shouldn't depend on a dude who makes zero bucks and has a bus factor of 1 (even if he's driving the bus)

in reply to @SamKeeper's post:

yeah I think they sort of go hand in hand.

like I think "netkeeper" is a really good term for a kind of labor that has analogies in other creative fields (fan wiki archivists that essentially do the research and indexing for large companies are a big, big one, and there's also the inverse where you can have something like Homestuck tacitly approving monetized fanworks and being put out for free and so making possible an artistic ecosystem that otherwise wouldn't exist). and I think it can help the process of asking "how can we withhold this labor" by first perceiving this as a type of labor that generates profits or at least income elsewhere.

but yeah I do think that the next step beyond codifying this labor is asking how can we organize this labor into a bloc that can advocate for its collective interests