Partheniad

waste of flesh.

game designer. queer. disabled. amazing taste. poor choices.
look, i just like talking about media, okay?

it aint that deep.


Strahd got mentioned again, and I have never actually touched any version of that adventure. But my brain always goes, "He's one vampire Michael, how many paladins would it take?" And that's because in Pathfinder 1E, Paladins were goddamn terrifying.

So real quick as far as combat effectiveness: Fighters are above average at everything and you can specialize them however you want, Barbarians are quick and easy damage machines that you won't see get outclassed unless you compare then to a Ranger vs their favored enemy or a Paladin when they get their smite on.

This is also the appeal of fighters is everyone else can exceed them but it circumstantial and relies on a resource(rage/smite charges) or a specific target (favored enemy/evil target). If the others don't have access to those things then the Fighter will just outclass them.

But Paladins just... christ they were good. Their only bad saving throw was Reflex, Dexterity is also their most common dump stat. BUT they got to add their CHA bonus to their saves in addition to the standard stats, so they usually have the best overall saves in the game besides monk.

But what does Smite Evil actually do? First, you add CHA to attack bonus and AC vs that target. Then you add your level to damage rolls against them, if they are undead, draconic, or a devil you get to double that damage bonus on the first hit. Finally, you just ignore any Damage Reduction they have. And one charge lasts until either the Paladin or the Foe are defeated.

To compare: A lv 4 barbarian rages and gets +2 to attack and damage and -2 to their AC. A lv 4 paladin smite could easily be getting a +4 to attack, damage, and AC.

It's amazing and makes all the Oaths worth it. And god have I been disappointed by every system to follow.

5E's smite is just... burn a spell slot for extra damage. They don't even have to be evil. But yeah a couple extra dice on one attack in exchange for a spell.

PF2E got rid of the Paladin entirely and replaced it with Champion(i will DIE MAD). And I went to look at what smite even is in the new player core... oh right they didn't even include them.


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in reply to @Partheniad's post:

This is why it's so hard for me to leave PF1e for later editions. People where I'm at wanna call it "mathfinder" as if the ability to do sicko shit like Smite+Spirited Charge alpha strikers is a bug and not a feature

The thing for me is Pathfinder 1e IS a spreadsheet game. I also fucking love it. I love teasing out all these bonuses and creating sick ass builds. There are so many goddamn archetypes and feats that it is less "hey this is THE BUILD" and more "how do you want to build your idea".

One of my fave things about PF when i played it was asking newbies what they wanted to build and then just being able to guide them towards that.

It is also exhausting for people who don't like that style of play- but I don't think its a bad game. I just think most people would prefer to interact with it as a video game where they dont have to hold all the math in their brains...

I also wish the Pathfinder video games had any kind of interesting encounter design because everything is just "walk in and fight a big group". Pathfinder spoiled paladins for me but BG3 has ruined this style of rpg combat in video games, because I know how good an encounter can be designed now.