It is still fun for me talk talk about bullshit Pathfinder 1E builds. I have some in my mind from years ago that were so much fun I'm still holding on to them. As much as I fucking LOATHED the Owlcat games, I had a lot of fun making shit in it. They successfully replicated that part of the game. To me, the joy of that game was finding fun things that would combo together and then figuring out a character from it. I was just explaining some of the basic aspects of Witches and Oracles and why those classes were so much fun- shocked at how much I enjoy the ideas. And the joy comes from the fact that it isn't hyper balanced, you can make a build that is just better. But because of there was so much, there were so many possible builds that you could just kinda go nuts. Maybe yours wasn't the best thing possible, but it would be fun to you. You could find an idea and then refine it.
And then I remember 2E and I get so sad. If 1E was a candy shop, 2E is 50 dollar bill you pick up off the ground only to find its a bible tract. Everytime you find something you think might be a fun build or combination- you are stymied. The game has found balance through HEAVILY restricting players. You can't multiclass as you once did, instead you are given a tasting menu of class abilities and aren't given any of the really juicy options.
Let me give an example: Rangers. I love a good ranger and Pathfinder 1E had some excellent versatility with theirs. They replaced Favored Enemy with Hunt Prey, instead of gaining a passive bonus against a specific type of foe, you instead spend an action to focus on an enemy and gain a bonus. This is a nice change to make Rangers good in every combat but you have to select a bonus. What are our options
Outwit: +1 to AC and +2 to trick, intimidate, sneak, or recall info on your target. I'm sorry but I +1 vs a single enemy isn't worth the action for me. Beyond that, am I really going to be making that many skill checks in combat? This fills circumstantial and more of a filler option than anything else.
Precision: The first time you hit a foe you deal +1d8 damage, this damage increases as you level. Alright this works better, a less damaging sneak attack that is easier to proc. Also the fact that this increases as you level but Outwit doesn't makes Outwit even more of terrible option. On average you are getting +4 damage each round. Solid choice.
Flurry: Okay now we are into RANGER SHIT. Rangers are usually dual wielding or firing every arrow in their quiver in one round, let's see what we can do. So in 2E you second attack in a round is made at -5 and subsequent attacks at -10. Flurry changes this to -3 and -6. But if you are using an Agile weapon it becomes -2 and -4. This activates my neurons. Oh hell yeah, what bow has the agile tag? This must be how we are doing multishot in this game. Oh.. the only ranged agile weapons in the Player Core are a Blowgun or Darts. The Blowgun does 1 nonlethal damage. Darts do 1d4. So its worth reminding you- Pathfinder doesn't add dex to damage on ranged attacks, if a weapon has the propulsive tag, you get to add HALF your STR.
So yeah.. I am likely to hit with darts but thats gonna do 7 damage on average. While I could pick up a Longbow with precision and do that average damage on one hit.
And the game is constantly that feeling. You have an idea, and you go to check and realize. Wait no.. that won't work. Oh, hey I could just use an agile Melee weapon, right? Sure, you can get all the way to a d6 that way(wheee~). Those agile melee weapons also got finesse, so there ya go- get yourself a high hit rate AND a AC.. but wait you dont get dex to damage in pathfinder either. You only get that if you are a specific kind of Rogue.
BUT WAIT! You say. Rogue and Ranger is peanut butter and chocolate of multiclassing! I could grab Flurry and go to Rogue, grab dex to damage and some sneak attack die and then its like I've grabbed precision as well! I've made a cool character combo now!... Right?
No. Because you can't gain either of hunt prey or the rogue specialty that grants dex damage from multiclassing. That would be too much fun.
So what does this mean for our Ranger? Well we can go with STR as their secondary stat and we wind up with something like this.
AC 17 (Leather 1 Armor 4 Dex 2 Proficiency)
Shortsword +6/+4/+2 (1d6+3) 6 average damage
This is gonna be the same for a Longbow build except it will do about 2 less per shot on average.
But what if you say... Just do the most basic greatsword wielder for a ranger? max out strength, but a bit into dex?
AC 17 (Chain 4 Armor 1 Dex 2 Proficiency)
Greatsword +6/+3/+0 (1d12+4) 10 damage
Welp that is SO much more damage. If you hit twice with build 2, you have outstripped build 1 even if it hits with all 3. But lets say for the sake of argument we have purely average rolls of 11 and are trying to hit 15. Build 1 does 12 and Build 2 does 10.
At which point I bring up that Build 2 should really be using Precision anyway, and will instead do 14 on its one hit of the round.
Which.. this just sucks? A ranger should be allowing these builds because its what their fantasy is? Instead its more effective to just build a Fighter with them, only an actual fighter outstrips them in every way- because the Fighter is an expert at attacks, meaning they have +2 to their attacks... that means compared to a flurry ranger they are more likely to hit on the first attack, and just as likely to hit on the second!. the fighter's third attack is a wash, but they also dont need to burn an action to activate this bonus everytime they attack.
So for the fighter we are looking at AC 18 because they have heavy armor
And they are doing Greatsword +8/+3/-2 10 damage on average. The fighter also has level 1 attack called vicious swing thats gonna take 2 actions and immediately drop their next attack to the -2 bracket. BUT they are able to make a +8 (2d12+4) attack. That's 17 damage on average and will hit AC 15 on 70% of your swings.
This is the PF2E experience. Anytime you have an idea for a thing its either banned by the game or just so much worse than the obvious choice. Not to mention that everything is so goddamn crunchy. And not in an enjoyable bowl of cereal way, but in a crushed by gears way. In most games, you equip a shield and you get a bonus. You are losing a hand to use but you just get a thing. In PF2E you have to spend an action to RAISE YOUR SHIELD. They tax you on getting the AC bonus. And like, sure, I could almost deal with that you know? Ya wanna be the tank you have to default down to having two actions a turn instead of three. But then... whenever you do get attacked and have your shield raised? You then spend a reaction to reduced your damage taken and your shield takes it. Which mean you have to track your shield's hp and hardness as well. And just.. okay cool, that just means I will NEVER FUCKING USE A SHIELD. Like congrats you found the threshold on bullshit I am willing to deal with for a +2 AC bonus.
This whole rantchost came from talking about Witches in Pathfinder, which were one of the most generous classes in the game. Witches have hexes which are spell effects that have infinite uses but can only target a specific target once per day. So you pick up healing hex and you have a cure spell prepped for everyone in the party. Evil Eye is a debuff that can target specific attributes of an enemy you need to lower. Misfortune gives a target disadvantage for their next turn. Cackle is a move action that would extend the duration of Evil Eye or Misfortune, keeping that shit going because once its effect ended, you weren't able to cast it on them again. Playing a Witch was easy because you ALWAYS had something to do, you could heal, buff, debuff, and were still a full spellcaster on top of that. It was like being at this utterly generous control panel going oh what cool thing will I do this turn?
They added Witches to PF2E as well... and I don't even want to talk about them.