Quelklef

milk consumer

girly but not a girl

name-color: #C09


im pretty sure i hold an opinion which i can best put into words as

generally speaking, people should not have to do anything that they don't want* to

these words suck, though. it sounds like i'm saying that everyone should be allowed to do whatever they want all the time, ignoring responsibilities and consequences. this is not remotely what i mean. the entire thing hinges on the meaning of the word want, which is why i've adorned it with an asterisk

i'm going to describe what i do mean and perhaps in the process discover better words for succinctly expressing the opinion


it starts with pain. i'll to roughly categorize all pain into two types. as upset as it makes me i am not able to give definitions for these types, only approximate characterizations.

type-A pain, let's call it, is characterized by being taken on voluntarily, or at least with some level of agency, typically for some higher purpose. a good example of type-A pain is somebody choosing to work out: it's painful, yes, but it's pain they are willingly undergoing in pursuit of a target physique, perhaps, or health benefits

type-B pain, on the other hand, is characterized by being forced pain and/or pain that is disconnected from any meaningful sense of reward. a good example of type-B pain is a kid who is forced to take piano lessons despite not giving a single honk about piano, not enjoying lessons or being able to pay attention, and resenting their parents the whole time. certainly there is a reward here, learning piano, but since that reward doesn't fit into the kid's internal value structure it's not much of a reward at all, and overall the experience is destructive[1]

[1]: assuming that the kid's opinion on piano doesn't change over the course of their instruction, which is entirely possible

using the language of type-A and type-B pain, my opinion becomes something like this:

type-B pain is usually not (almost never?) necessary or justified and can usually (almost always?) be replaced with type-A pain

when I say this, I'm thinking about:

  • people who are forced to work a job they hate to make just enough money to keep on living, and accordingly hate their life and their job

    they're absolutely right to have the resentment that they do, and the systems that put them in that position are despicable for doing so

    the pain of having and doing a job should be type-A. this can be realized in any number of ways. a person who loves their job because it is in line with their passion. a person who does not like their job itself, but is willing to take it on to support themselves and their family. a person who kinda likes their job but loves the social connections it brings them. a person who loves their job because it's exactly their special interest

    my claim is that no job should induce type-B pain. to this i imagine some readers would respond: "but what about sanitation workers/urine farmers (apparently a thing)/whatever? nobody wants to do those, so they won't get done!" first of all, i call bullshit. there are tons of people with weird interests out there who would want to do these things. beyond those people, there are tons more who are going to be willing to do this job, understanding that even though it's not pleasant it's an important role, and happy that by doing their job they can (theoretically) support themselves and their family

    and if there really is a job that absolutely nobody is willing to do, then that job probably shouldn't exist.

  • myself when i was younger, being forced at a summer camp to go on several 3-4 day hikes

    for many people, hiking is type-A: yes, their legs hurt, but they love to work their bodies and be in nature (or away from non-nature). this is great! this is how it should be!

    for me, it was not this way. i hated the hikes. the fact that i was in nature made no difference to me at that age; it did not help; it was not valuable to me. and when we would reach the peak, sure, that was nice, but i was just dreading the descent. and when the summer camp ended i did not feel "proud of myself for doing something hard" because i recognized, on some subconscious level, that i hadn't "displayed strength in overcoming difficulty" -- i hadn't displayed strength at all, because it hadn't been my choice to do the hike! i had been forced through something difficult and it was finally fucking over[2]

[2]: to make this point more clear, consider the following example. someone has a phobia of spiders. a well-meaning friend forces them into a room with a spider and locks them in. they allow them out an hour later and congratulate their friend on their "strength" for having "confronted" their fear

this all is what i am talking about when i say that people shouldn't have to do things that they don't "want" to. i mean that pain should come paired with choice and agency.

the issue is that i don't quite have the words for this, without going into a full description

it really sucks because i often feel like i am being put through the wrong type of pain, but when i try to express this others they don't get it, and they and seem to think that i just don't want to work, or that i'm lazy, or entitled, or something like that


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in reply to @Quelklef's post:

I entirely agree. I had similar thought myself, and you said them better than I ever could.
I think pain and privation can be good things, they can contribute to a richer experience, however they have to be accepted by the person experiencing them as part of the project. When people don't care about the project, the pain is the only thing to focus on, and it sucks. Plus, there comes a point where there is so much pain that the it just overtake any project we might have (or at least should, there are some people willing to work through horrible pain, with long term consequence.)

In my experience (having done many years of work that involved cleaning up nasty messes), very few jobs are too disgusting or too grueling in the actual labor - it's all about the conditions.

Give me a job in a nursing home where I wash dirty asses all day, but the schedule is predictable and allows for time off, the pay is a living wage, staffing is adequate every day, equipment is modern and well-maintained, management takes concerns seriously - and I do not care even a little bit about the ass part. You get used to that, even take pride that you're helping someone who can't do it for themself. Nursing homes have massive turnover for every reason except the asses.