Raake

Part-time human, full-time critter

  • she/they/it

A shapeshifter of sorts
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🏳️‍⚧️ Mtf

🩶 Gray ace (🔞)

💊 ADHD

😴 Perpetually eepy
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profile pic by Lilly


MOOMANiBE
@MOOMANiBE

so like, this is a really interesting (and painful) read but there's something that really strikes me, where he mentions how close to ship everything was coming together, and god. What a mood.

I feel like it's one of those things that would absolutely shock gamers but is just kind of Understood among many gamedevs - that when games come out bad, it's not that the developers somehow were lying or concealing something, but that many games are very, very bad for 99% of their development time and then they become good at the last minute, like putting the final piece into a puzzle. Everything interlocks and then it finally makes sense.

Or it doesn't fit. And then you do what you can and hope.

and so like, you know. you come off a game like clockwork empires, which I worked on for like 4+ years, and it's like "didn't you know it was bad?" No, I simply hoped - down to the literal last second patch we never shipped - that it would become good. You spend most of development feeling that feeling. You have to feel that feeling, because otherwise it's impossible to get through that lengthy middle bit that's just working and working and so little obvious impact from it. The fact that it never manifested sucked for me and sucked for the playerbase, but there's never any maliciousness in it. It's just so damn hard to tell whether something is going to work out or not until you do the work.

Maybe I'm especially prone to this because I work in indie, which often lacks dedicated designers. I've been on a lot of games where the development process could be perhaps kindly described as "improvisational". I imagine, or I'd like to hope, it's a lot cleaner on stuff like action games where the terms are clearly understood. But, you know, when the gaslamp crew set out to make "dwarf fortress but accessible" I think we truly were figuring out every single step as we went. That doesn't have to be bad - sometimes it works out, and I think sticking explicitly to 'best practices' can lead to really conservative games. But the tradeoffs are pretty clear, right? Ambition can sometimes be like a really cool prototype plane that looks a lot less cool when it stalls and crashes.

One of the things I truly believe is that no one on a dev team ever sets out to make a bad game. Gamedev is buoyed by nothing if not eternal optimism. And so it's really hard to know what "honesty" looks like, right? Do you go out there and say "well it's awful but it'll be good by ship?" Will anyone understand? I've been working in this industry for over a decade and I still don't think I've ever shipped a game where I truly knew whether anyone was going to like it or not when it released. So you hope, and you do your best to make it good, and you hope some more. And if you're lucky, it works out.

And if you're not... well, maybe you end up like that guy linked above and get pilloried for a decade for things your boss's boss's boss did. Idk. It's a rough position to be in.


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in reply to @MOOMANiBE's post:

no one on a dev team ever sets out to make a bad game.

Buuuuut we do set out to make a "not great" game sometimes. Movie-tie-in games used to be a huge part of the market (maybe they still are on mobile?), meaning a game whose primary purpose is to be a promotional tie-in to the movie (and toys etc), to come in absolutely on-time (the movie launch) and on or under budget. So you go in with those rigid constraints, and if that means you have to absolutely massacre the scope, then that's what you do. I worked on 3-4 of these (depends how you count them, and only one ever shipped) and although devs can often be proud of the work they did within the constraints (and I am!), nobody is fooling themselves that the game will be at all good in any absolute sense.

I mean of course all games have these constraints - if you run out of talent or budget then the game dies and maybe the studio with it. But the constraints are usually a bit more flexible, and you can aim at the "median" goodness for the budget, not the "90% worst case" which is what you have to do when ship date is as nailed to the calendar as for a tie-in.

Amusingly, for one of the tie-ins, they shifted the movie launch date up by 3 months on us. There was no hope of us moving our ship date, and the contract had no provision for us doing so. So we just didn't - the tie-in game was months after the movie, but contractually they had to pay us the money anyway because it wasn't our fault.

Marvel are already ramping up the process, though to be fair a lot of their big games are Good Actually (e.g. Midnight Suns). And that whole sausage-maker industry is very much alive and well on mobile, from what I can see. Eh, it's a (precarious) living.

i think promotional movie tie in games have mostly been replaced with promotional "free content" added to an existing free to play thing.

making a whole game is too much for promotional material, it'll instead be another thing they do with their "IP"

I worked at CA around the same time on a different team making an action game and "don't worry it will all come together, uh oh" was present there too. This is actually quite fascinating to read about as we were largely isolated! Around this time the studio was growing fast and moved into a much bigger office, and I'm sure they were having trouble with the old processes working at scale. Although that's no justification.

I don't think studios "set out to make a bad game" but certainly some studios operate where a game being good is a nice-to-have. Where the business strategy is signing a contract and delivering as little as possible while still getting work. "Why do you care so much" and "this only needs to be good enough [publisher] will give us more work in future" are real responses I've heard from management about core gameplay problems (this wasn't at CA, I should stress!)

(Probs going to regret posting this in 10 minutes. But I am 6000 miles and a decade away.)