SJHDoesGames

Try To Make Your Skill Ultimate!

Game designer, writer, casual artist, and Twitch streamer. Fighting games are fun but also kind of painful lol. Big fan of Kamen Rider, anime, and video games in general, but especially JRPGs and fighting games.

Other pages:
FF14 stuff (like questions of the day, asking about FF14 stuff, etc): @FromTheLadiesOfLight


Kayin
@Kayin

All the Sirlin shit has dragged back how he just fucking steals shit like he thinks he's doing a homage but he's just like be "let me take this very similar character, give them all the same moves as said character, give half those moves the same name" and then turn around and say "this is just what other fighting games do' until, right??" until enough people yell at him that he injects, against his will, some visual creativity into the movesets of his characters.

And then people will get all like legal about this when that doesn't matter, it's just bad art. It's taking, aesthetically, from everyone, without even trying to meaningfully give back to the collective pool of ideas, being unwilling to effort into the exact thing that is, frankly, the only reason some people want to make fighting games to begin with.

Then sometimes I'm like "Well, sometimes he DOES have fun, remixy ideals that cross character archetypes and it's not all "Degray is embarrassingly just Slayer, down to having one of the same BnBs", but then I remember he has a race in Codex called the Vortoss that's all just purple protoss units, sometimes without even renaming them. Its like anti-caring???

Only then, years ago, I made an off handed comment that implied he didn't care about his characters -- like not accusingly just like "oh yeah like obviously these aren't important for you, they're vehicles for game design" and it actually really hurt his feelings like "Actually I care about them a lot!!" and like that was, in that moment, the most human Sirlin has ever acted in front of me.

idk what the point of this is I just had some petty ass feels I wanted to get out and didn't wanna shit up more twitter fights. But idk he'll take from everything but then be ultra protective of every thing and make sure ever shred of credit that can possibly go his way goes his way idk it's just gross to me. Like FS might have had a fun almost 'programmer art' appeal if not defended with this weird confident zeal that no, this is EXACTLY what everyone else does!!

edit: The Vortoss thing is just like idk it's not like it's biting off Protoss for clout, or because doing something better would be harder like you just tell your artist to draw something it can be anything!! And it just kills me that, with unlimited imagination and the field of creativity it's like "Ah yes, lets just bite off of blizzard" like how in the trash does your aesthetic senses have to be that you just keep going to rip off Blizzard????? I don't think I have a single friend that is a fraction as uncreative as he is

It's like he just gets emotionally attached to placeholder art like instead of not caring he cares too easily which makes him make shitty art and also be super defensive over a fucking common japanese word


SJHDoesGames
@SJHDoesGames

(quick context for what exactly Kayin is referencing here: David Sirlin made a card game called Yomi, the name of which is derived from a fighting game slang term that was in turn derived from Japanese, either 読み or 読み合い depending on how you slice it; it basically means "making a read on what your opponent is going to do based on the things they've already done". Silrin is now now actively litigating with other indie titles using the word in their games; one has already changed the title, while the other is to my knowledge delisted from the Steam store until they figure out next steps.)

Speaking from the position I've generally been using Cohost for (which is like, discussion of game dev things) Sirlin's actions bother me as a game dev for these reasons:


  • It's extremely petty to actively chase down indie developers that he knows are not going to be able to actively litigate with him on an even level over the use of a plain-ass Japanese word, and one that he's actively used in a free context HIMSELF to begin with. This is even worse because least one of them is using a different reading of "yomi" to begin with (when written with different kanji, "yomi" can be used to refer to the underworld, which is where one of the other litigated games was going with it), has been out on the Steam store for two years already without any fuss until now, and IS NOT in the same genre as his game. I semi-seriously said elsewhere that I'd like to see him try this with Trek to Yomi, but I know he won't because there's a good chance that Flying Wild Hog would 2-0 him for trying.
  • As Kayin has already pointed out in her post, Sirlin has made his living off of putting zero effort into actively doing anything to honor the "remix culture" he's so fond of claiming as the source of his derivative visual design philosophy for his other games like Fantasy Strike. Sirlin basically uses "remix culture" as the main justification for not actually investing serious intent or work into the art of making something; everything is for the taking, so no one should complain about what is "clearly homage" instead of being bland, uninspired, and derivative "brand x" of something that already exists. Sirlin's decision to actively try to sabotage the work of people who very clearly are trying to invest that intent into creating a work that synthesizes things the way that creative ventures should is insulting.

I'm especially incensed about that second point with regard to Sirlin's actions. I will say, with complete honesty, that I've styled my current game design projects (Viral Core Busters and ULKSS) in homage to very specific franchises/games (Mega Man Battle Network aesthetically for VCB, and Lost Kingdoms mechanically for ULKSS), but am also actively working to bring myself into the process so that those games become something new. Even the [redacted name] fighting game that I've been brainstorming in my spare time is trying to look holistically at existing fighting game archetypes for the characters to embody--even with specific characters as influences, it's from the perspective of making the new character do their own things that are specific to the game they're in, not some game that they're crudely imitating.

That's really what the point of making games or any other creative venture is, which I don't think Sirlin will ever understand. From that lens and in my view, he's a "bad" game designer for that reason, truly, and will continue to be until he actually learns how to be less self-absorbed and more willing to be sincere about his work. Take the influences in, then do something meaningfully you with them that lets people recognize you in the work. If people want exactly the thing you're going to carelessly rip off, they'll go to that thing instead.


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in reply to @Kayin's post:

the protos thing is so funny to me cause, the protos were already that for the eldar. So its like a rip off of a rip off, like the end result of this game of telephone slowly losing everything that made the originals appealing. So they've gone from anime inspired grim dark samurai space elfs to just... Vaguely Japanese looking robot type things. Everything cool and unique filed off till they're just... Like the most generic thing imaginable

Not sure how relevant this ramble is, but that part about his feelings genuinely being hurt reminded me of a scene from one of my favorite underrated anime.

Context: The series follows a light novel author, and he and a fellow author/rival/friend (who I'll call Glasses) got a bit of a "grass is always greener" dynamic.

The protagonist's whole thing is being a weirdo who's obsessed with little sister characters, which leads to his works being overly indulgent and wacky, they aren't the best in a lot of technical ways, and they don't sell as well. Nevertheless, his works are unique, and have a dedicated fanbase who wants to see what crazy shit he'll do, an identifiable soul/voice that people come back to.

Glasses's whole deal is that he's basically trying to game the system. He painstakingly has tried to formula out what's most popular and appealing tropes to put into his works, gone out of his way to write "good", spends a ton of time curating his online persona and the theatrics of being an author. His works sell really well, far better than the protagonists, and he's even landed himself an anime adaptation! But one criticism that keeps coming back to haunt him over and over, its that they're generic, played out. Technically sound, cohesive, mass appealing, but you've seen it all before.

So the protagonist is jealous of Glasses' financial success, while Glasses' is jealous of the protagonist's artistic success. A third into the series his anime is set to premier, and the friend group gets together to watch it live, cue the scene (we'll have to do with reddit providing the clip):

https://v.redd.it/4xn8t5n3p9b31

Now this is really humanizing, a completely different context, and also made up, so I'm not about to project it into Sirlin (doubt the character would DMCA anyone, then again, maybe if he's that caught up in the business theatrics). But it is a scene that stuck with a lot of people, its really easy to look at derivative, cynical works and presume that cynicism extends to person that made it, and that they may genuinely care for these aspects of their work doesn't cross our minds. Maybe its like, the tragic plea of the uncreative trying to be creative, misunderstanding the assignment, but still being attached to all the work they put in. And well, why wouldn't they, that thing they like was cool, and now they've "made" a thing like it, its still cool AND their baby. They put in all this work into the technical and business aspects! But its also like asking for brownie points for painting a replica, yes, that takes technical skill, not everyone can put that to paper/screen, get published, but the original wasn't loved just because of that, and you have all of this skill/opportunity you could be doing inspired things with!

Yeah when he said it I was baffled but I also believed him. But of course the problem isn't being too generic (god, I'm probably too generic) but taking stuff that is at best a tonal placeholder and either just not giving a shit, or picking up the slack somewhere else to make the homage shine in a new context.

but god my poor anime homie!!