trans mom, wife, composer. The now-retired speedrunner who asked the axiom verge dev "why?"


auramgold
@auramgold

damn i wish i could like comments on here, i liked being able to do that little bit of "i acknowledge i saw this :)" on twitter


munin
@munin

It's the meta that if you want heart shaped endorphin boosts you have to increase readership actively by participating in the conversation visibly. Which kind of has me wondering what the point of the comments are, except for keeping it scoped to a specific subset of conversers?


chirasul
@chirasul

comment = i am talking to the post-maker directly

repost w/ addition = i am contributing to the idea of the post and sharing it with my friends

either way, the lack of a heart on comments is a good thing. social media has been changing not just the way we communicate, but the way we think about human interaction in general. by not allowing simple shortcuts (like pressing a heart), we get the opportunity to make slightly more meaningful connections to the person who posted it. i know even a comment with only a ❤ and nothing more in it is more meaningful to me than someone pressing the like button. cohost is actually very cool this way, it encourages people to talk with each other


SaberaMesia
@SaberaMesia

People have different levels of interaction they're comfortable with. It's fine to prefer receiving a comment reply to a like, but a lot of people are just not going to interact even with stuff they genuinely like because they don't have a level of interaction available that they're comfortable with. That's inherently a trade-off you make, and I don't think it's strictly good or bad, but something with pros and cons.

I am, however, extremely glad that we cannot "ratio" people on this webbed site.


Comments on this post are locked.

in reply to @munin's post:

in reply to @chirasul's post:

I'm in a weird position about this because on one hand I agree it's good to be like "this is a bad habit we're trying to discourage through design" even on this...

but on a personal level I'm so terrified of somehow being a "reply guy" or something like that, I'll often psych myself out of even leaving a "like" because I'm afraid I'll show up too often in their notifs and creep the person out just by being there.

I think worrying about becoming a "reply guy" is reasonable, but I'll let you in on a secret that will hopefully put you at ease: the core philosophy of the reply guy ethos is "I'm gonna make this about me!" When you're genuinely appreciating or engaging with something in earnest, you will never do that accidentally. Also, I don't speak for everyone but for me, regular and reliable commenters are my favorite thing in the whole world.

I too need to really internalise this (appreciation =/= weird unless it's overly familiar/redirecting to me) to get out of the same worry patterns. But actually, that deprogramming is likely a healthy thing for the future in general, potentially, and I'm appreciating how Cohost is helping with that

in reply to @SaberaMesia's post:

i think that this site is doing a good job actively disincentivizing any kind of feedback at all. it feels insular. not being able to like the good posts gives equal voice to the bad posts. it disallows the system to regulate or order feedback. if anything, it will promote more hateful content being seen once the site becomes larger. sure, ratios are a thing on some less savory platforms, but hiding any and all feedback metrics (not seeing follow mutuals, not seeing growth statistics, not having pertinent replies focused to the top) is not a step forward. its a step back in fear of the possible harms. we should be focusing on the mountains of good that can come from these metrics, like giving folks a larger voice, being able to signal boost for crowd funding for friends, sharing our growth with queer folk who may use their platform to grow as a business.

the metrics should be toggleable for folks who don't want to see them, not completely hidden.

Here's a good example of why etiquette needs to develop re: posting vs. commenting. You added a post to the chain, and fair enough. Somebody else dropped a comment beneath your post in particular, and it looks like you interpreted it as 1. directed specifically toward you, 2. hostile and 3. overbearing. In reality, somebody just pressed "reply" underneath a sitewide discussion and added their thoughts.

Six months or a year from now, we'll have a better idea who (if anyone) "owns" a particular comments section, but right now, on desktop, all the comments are mashed together. The indication that I'm now commenting under your post, rather than the post above, is small and easy to miss.

i think the feeling about the necessity of metrics to weed out hate comes from a valid fear especially with how twitter moderates (barely), but here there has been a pretty explicit promise (and practice!) of proper humans-actually-reading-the-reports moderation

the punishment for posting hate is getting posts deleted and being banned, not being ratioed and the post staying up, and i think unless or until staff proves incapable of effective moderation what we have now is the better option

I don't follow how not being able to give unspoken approval to Good Posts could lead to the promotion of hateful posts. That seems more like a site culture thing; people would have to be actively choosing to circulate hateful content (and failing to report it).

In my experience a system with visible likes doesn't do much to discourage people being assholes unless there's also a negative reinforcement mechanic like Reddit downvotes, but even then what it measures is usually group social approval, and that is highly localized and can easily backfire. For example, Elon Musk's tweets usually have more likes than they do comments (which tend to be negative, at least at the top) or retweets (could be positive, negative, or neutral), or quote retweets (commonly the form a negative retweet takes). What can we conclude about a guy who everyone seems to be universally calling the world's biggest dipshit when they type text and post it, but who also has upwards of 100k likes on some of his most dipshit opinions? On a smaller scale, what can we conclude about a terf post that hasn't circulated beyond a terf subreddit and thus has hundreds of approving upvotes and comments and only a few dissenting comments, all of which have been downvoted into invisibility?

I personally think a lot of the problems with social media sites have been the direct result of building systems to order and regulate feedback; it typically means that human beings still have to manage the feedback but must do it by interacting with the system instead of with each other directly. The concept of a "ratio" is exactly what this is; if you know that an opinion's level of social acceptability is going to be judged at a glance, then a post having far more comments or quote retweets than likes is the visible-at-a-glance indicator of, "oh, a lot of people think this opinion sucks." And it's half-ironic; the only reason to play this game is to try to hit someone with enough negative feedback that they delete it, because even commenting to say it's a shitty opinion expands its reach.

I don't know if no visible likes or no likes on comments is a solution to this--I'm generally wary of any "people will do x if we prevent them from doing y" system in tech, although it doesn't seem like the Cohost staff are operating from that perspective in the way that causes major problems. But it is an opportunity to try something else for a while and see if new tools lead to better fixes.

I think the important thing here is that cohost doesn't expose the number of shares or likes something has, so you can't really number watch an individual chost without taking great pains, and I love that! But if you could generate an "ack" notification on a comment for the receiver like you can heart a post—a silent nod between you and the commenter—I think there's good merit to that