SamKeeper

Then Eve, Being A Force

Laughed At Their Decision



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sylvie
@sylvie

back in july i wrote this strange essay as part of Sylvies Video Game Thoughts, my ongoing project to have thoughts about video games:

2022.07.02 (The Designer's Heart Laid Bare)

i've been thinking about it a lot after watching andi's playthrough of sylvie lime yesterday, because i realized sylvie lime ended up elaborating on a lot of the ideas in this essay! (when i wrote this sylvie lime had been in development for like, a week)

i thought i'd share it again because i think a number of people follow me here who wouldn't have seen it when i originally posted it on twitter.... it feels like the most complete expression of my current game design philosophy that currently exists, maybe


v21
@v21

this is a good essay! here is a quote that is in it:

"I like games that are a little antagonistic to the player. It feels like some games try to obscure the conversation the developer is having with the player. But an antagonistic game often feels like direct communication between the player and developer."


geometric
@geometric

This is so spot on. I've been percolating on this dynamic for years in regards to my own work and the games I love. There was this period of time when indies got really brave, and I remember Rain World and Tumbleseed came out around the same time and got slammed by critics for having weird controls and obscure worlds.

As someone who is bored to death by the standardization of so much gamefeel, it was such a joy to find these new, wonderfully expressive methods of traversal. Part of the joy of playing a game to me is learning a new way to move, to be. I have been Mario enough, I have been Mario and his imitators for decades. I want to know someone besides Shigeru Miyamoto through their work.


SamKeeper
@SamKeeper

I've been thinking about this as I watch GDQ, particularly when we tuned into the beginning of the infamous Awful Block. there's a real difference, I'm finding, in my enjoyment between people who are performatively dismissive of the games they're playing (which you even get with some AAA games--i.e. complaining about things in Skyward Sword not being "logical"), and people who seem genuinely delighted in the weird bullshit they're playing. it does feel like in the latter case there's some sense of conversation happening, which makes the weird performance art of speedrunning a lot more entertaining in my opinion. like, if you go into a game like Yolanda The Ultimate Challenge perceiving it as a precursor to Kaizo, it sort of reframes a bunch of stuff that might be "unfair" as, like, a kind of joke, right? as slapstick, the way unfair things are in kaizo or a game like "I Wanna Be The Guy"

in particular I just want to highlight Pac Man 2 as a really obviously friction filled, adversarial, maybe masochistic game. there's something about "you can't control what this little jerk does, you've just got to bonk things with a slingshot and hope it provokes the desired reaction" that feels genuinely fascinating. uh, for someone else, mind. I don't think I'd enjoy playing this game. but I sure love hearing about it, and I love watching someone explain all the obtuse things you need to do in order to manipulate the surprisingly lively and expressive title character. I mean I guess in the same way that probably "I Like America And America Likes Me" wasn't that interesting to, like, watch as a performance, but Josef Beuys hanging out with a wild fox for several days in an art studio is conceptually interesting to think and hear and talk about and see documentation from.

I suppose this framing is maybe a bit different from the one used here which focuses on a certain amount of authorial intent or at least imagined or projected intent and I'm on this whole Vibrant Matter bullshit and still very interested in what the material of the game itself is doing, but it feels like there's some overlap in approach here? if only in that it sure seems to be a lot more interesting and productive to take these games as they are and try to understand the specific experience they're offering than quantifying everything with the 'good game design' product engineering approach that's dominated the discourse for basically all my life.


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in reply to @sylvie's post:

still have to read this but replying 'cos don't know how else to message people here: sylvie have you seen finger limes? they're native aussie and they're full of little balls that pop with lime juice. they come in a bunch of colours too! had to tell you 'cos we got a bunch of them for new years and every time i have one i can't help singing 'what's going on this tiiiime, i've got a little pink finger liiiime'

i'm glad i got to read this piece now, i found it very resonant and useful. i've described a lot my favorite games or design choices as "hostile" to the player, but i think adversarial is a little fairer, and connecting the effect to the sense of dialogue between player and author is clear-headed in an infectious way where it makes my head feel clearer too. where it connects for me is that often when games have gotten adversarial or otherwise made uncomfortable demands of me, i've made the choice (often consciously) to place my "trust" in them, to assume at least for a while that the game has a good reason for what it's and to be patient with that discomfort while i try to make some meaning of it. whether that trust "pays off" or not can feel really personal for me, in a weirdly anthropomorphic way. if it doesn't pay off, i can feel a little hurt or betrayed, even though the stakes are actually pretty low. if it does pay off, it can make me feel extra warmly toward or "closer" to a game, like a friend went out of their way to keep a promise to me. these are some of the most joyful gaming moments for me and i wind up feeling very affectionately toward certain games because of it...

Love this approach to games.

I also believe that "abusive" is a strong word as I would definitely make a distinction of games with "dark design" practices that attempt you to steal your time and money. Think of lootboxes, misused energy mechanics to male you feel anxious to buy. Our know the drill. Those can have the smoothest experience ever, only to roadblock you with buying stuff schemes or other things to make you obsessed and make you pay.

Soon I'd rather like to use Adversarial game design, if not that it reminds of the original biblical connotations of it meaning that and adversary as an angel or demon that challenges you, nut not to make your life hell on purpose or to be simply mean. But for the purpose of learning and understanding.

But, setting that aside, I do believe there are methods to some of these ideas. Here are some games that I think resonate with this concept.

  1. Getting over it with Bennet Foddy: well yeah, no surprises there. The conversation with the player is literally there with Bennet talking to you directly and exploring/explaining the process with you. It is on the nose, but it does put designer front and center with the game to not be just a thing to annoy you.

  2. Lemmings, especially the first version: Seriously? Lemmings? Yup I do believe this game that this ethos, you can feel it especially in the later levels, which are devious and devilishly clever. There is a special part of the later levels that will put you on the original starting levels, but with a complete different set of tools available that run those levels inside out and one specifically can be done only with a totally new technique that you have to discover and will transform completely how do you play the game (if you have played it, you know the one level). Oh and you will feel the devs hand on those levels and say "oh those bastards" with a smile on your face.

I understand lemmings was basically crrated by the devs making levels to challenge each other with more and more weird BS being put against each other. Then they just simplified those levels to be the first ones and called it a day. So I guess it has a LandStalkers quality to it. But you can definitely feel the devs hand there especially in the more complicated levels.

Dark Castle and Beyond Dark Castle, the original for Mac Os system 6: Oh yeah, nothing like dying because of trying to get the fireball power up before the shield (you'll get toasted), or dying trying to get the shield because you got striken by lightning even if you get the shield (you need to put the shield up and wait to get striken by lightning, I mean it obvious isn't it?). Or even taking a wrong turn, or being taken by the gargoyle in the final boss takes you to the dungeon that makes you go through three screens just to get out of it to try again. You can hear the devs chuckle when you fall to the dungeon for any reason. It's a system that you start getting their tricky logic that in hindsight s eems obvious.

I believe that many games in the 2010's do hold some of this philosophy. What @zaratustra names the "interregnum" of indie games (too old for steam and too young for archive.org). Lots of people making cheeky games with game maker or flash are parte of this idea. Some more obvious than others. I can think of stuff like I wanna be the guy, the original hitchhiking game that inspired Bennet Foddy's game, Seiklus, Karoshi, Kyle in the cube Sector, etc.

But yeah I really love the idea of games that go against the idea of feeling invisible and instead like you said, be clear that there is a dev behind and you just wantontalk and say your piece with the tools you have. I love it.