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amaranth-witch
@amaranth-witch

holy shit I think I just ran a successful sneaking mission in Lancer. I did not know if that was possible.

I'll try to get a writeup but wow, only once I wind down a little.


amaranth-witch
@amaranth-witch

I promised a writeup, and thus, here we are!

The setup was pretty straightforward: This Lancer subsquad is trying to infiltrate (and blow up) (probably) a base housing a faction that's been messing not just with them, but also their IPS-Northstar contact Gin Stellar (think Gene Starwind but even more of a loser). Also, an independent Lancer team going by Discord Kittens is on site, and they accidentally kidnapped one of their pilots. It's a long story. Anyway, they had the option of going in "Loud" and knocking on the front door guns blazing, or going in "Quiet" and seeing how far they could get without provoking a response. Loud would have been a fixed-difficulty frontal assault followed by a fixed-difficulty final confrontation. They chose the risk/reward of Quiet, a "sneaking mission" approach with a final confrontation whose difficulty would scale based on how Sneaky they could be. In mechs.

Let's fucking go.

They had a "backdoor" to the facility located, at the end of a snaking canyon, which allowed for a controlled overland approach. The goal was to hit the backdoor, take out whatever sentries were onsite, and be inside before a response could be scrambled.

The complication: a convoy was arriving onsite at the same time, under guard.

The players deployed not at the base of the snake canyon at the bottom of the map, but instead at the little pass about 25% up on the left side of the map. Their goal was "exfiltrate your units through the exit in the upper-right corner of the map".

I'll go over the exact composition of the OpFor in a bit, I'll talk about the sitrep first.

The mission started with VARIANT INITIATIVE. Rather than Lancer's normal popcorn initiative, all player characters moved first in sequence, followed by a status check, followed by "end-of-round" movement based on Alert Level.

Alert Level begins at 0. If the Alert level hits 10, we are headed to the Worst Outcome (and probably a second knock-down drag-out fight). There are several break points along the way: at 1, 4 and 7, the situation will escalate, and also the next fight will be Harder because of Forewarning. I did not tell my players where the breakpoints are: I didn't want them panicking about any specific Alert level, but rather the Alert Level in general. I didn't want them to know that "Well, 0 is the pipe-dream pie-in-the-sky, and then 1 through 3 are the same and we only have to worry about 4", I wanted them to treat it as more a rheostatic tension. I just don't have the brainpower to run a tactical scenario and also track responses for 10 different tension steps.

Alert level increases in the following ways:

  • The first time an enemy is DESTROYED, the Alert Level increases by 1
  • If the players end the turn in open combat, the Alert Level increases by 1 (open combat means that an enemy was attacked or otherwise engaged, but not destroyed or otherwise incapacitated)
  • If a convoy truck is destroyed, the Alert Level increases by 1
  • There are 5 Scout units on the map for security overwatch. They each have an Active Sensors effect in Burst 5 around them: for each player unit that enters an Active Sensors effect in a round, increase the Alert Level by 1 at the end of the round, if the Scout survives. This increase happens even if the player unit is Invisible, Intangible, or Hidden, but does not remove those status effects.
  • The first time a non-Scout unit moves adjacent to a wrecked ally, increase the Alert Level by 1
  • The first time a Scout unit moves to within Burst 5 of a wrecked ally, increase the Alert level by 1
  • If the Alert Level is 3 or below, increase the Alert Level by 1 if a player unit is adjacent to any convoy or defense unit at any point during the round (4 or higher and it doesn't matter, the gig is already up and they've been marked as Definitely Hostile).

While the Alert Level is 0: Each unit in the convoy moves 4 along the canyon towards the backdoor exit at the end of the round. Scouts do not move. Defenders do not move.

When the Alert Level reaches 1: the nearest Scout unit moves its Speed towards the location where the Alert Level was raised, at the end of the round. If the Alert Level reached 1 because of a player sniping a Scout and destroying it, for instance, the next nearest Scout will move towards the location of the destroyed Scout to check on their buddy that just dropped off comms.

When the Alert Level reaches 2, switch to standard Lancer Popcorn Initiative (treat Convoy Trucks as a third, Neutral faction or move them at the end of the round). Do not activate every enemy unit normally, instead, check:

  • If the unit is a SCOUT, activate the unit normally if a player is within Burst 5 ("hot" sensors radius). Otherwise, move the Scout towards the last known disturbance or known player location.
  • If the unit is NOT a Scout, first check to see if the unit has line of sight to any non-Hidden, non-Invisible, non-Intangible player units. If yes, activate the unit normally. If no, roll a Just Following Orders save with target equal to 16-(Alert Level): failure means that the unit Follows Orders and keeps station, success means that the unit activates normally.

When the Alert Level reaches 4, all enemy units activate normally. In addition, the next battle will start at the first escalation (or appropriate to your scenario)

When the Alert Level reaches 7, reinforcements arrive. In addition, the next battle will start at the second escalation, as appropriate to your scenario

When the Alert Level reaches 10, reinforcements arrive. In addition, the next battle will start at the final escalation, as appropriate to your scenario.

When a character arrives in the exfil zone, they may immediately withdraw from the battlefield. If they don't, they may withdraw as a free action on their turn.

Combat ends when all player lancers have exfiltrated.

The enemy forces on the battlefield for our mission were:

  • 5 Convoy Trucks (Size 1, Move 4, scattered along the canyon, mainly a red herring and there to raise the alert level by being disruptive)
  • 5 Scouts (Scout Vehicle, Hover, Marker Rifle and Expose Weakness, primarily there to both spot characters and disrupt them with identification through the Marker Rifle)
  • 5 Light Hover Escorts (Sniper Vehicle, Hover, a big threat once the alert level is raised, but because of Loading only every other turn)
  • 3 Heavy Hover Escorts (Scourer Vehicle, Hover, Pulse Laser, a heavy weapons and deterrent platform once the alert level is raised, but only within about a range of 8 give or take, still avoidable)
  • 2 MACC Monsters (Deluge, Riding the Redline, Spray and Pray, serving as the "Gate Guards" of the scenario, there to lay down overlapping hail-of-fire fields once characters are spotted and make movement difficult/risky)

Reinforcements were on tap, but turned out unnecessary; through some incredibly tense maneuvering our team got out at Alert Level 3, finishing up with a mad dash to the exit.

It was really good, folks. I had a blast.

EDIT: Update on Alert Level specifically. So, once things Go (even partially) Loud, I.E. once the Alert Level hits 1 or higher, there's no sneakin' by on "oh haha we're not here" or "whoopsie uh we're... allies with malfunctioning IFF's?" or the like. There's no re-establishing Undetected status; if you blow up one of the scouts or even just Jam them so they can't communicate (getting creative, etc) their friends are gonna know that Something is Up. So this isn't about "no one knows we're here", as soon as anyone knows you're there, as soon as you make any mark on the battlefield. An Alert Level of even 1 means that Someone knows Something's up, so it's just a question of "can we capitalize while they aren't sure what is going on yet", combat tension, and so forth. It's not "will they know we're even there", it's "can we get out before they realize what's really going on".


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in reply to @amaranth-witch's post:

OK AND THE BEST PART

There were TWO. TWO. SEPARATE TIMES. when the players were positioned precisely right - and they didn't know this, they hadn't Scanned the scouts because they were worried that would be considered hostile action and raise the alert level (they were right), and they hadn't figured out the movement pattern of the convoy - PRECISELY right so that they were RIGHT IN THE GODDAMNED DEAD ZONE between two Scout active sensor fields, a FUCKING ONE-HEX MARGIN just out of sight, and they did this AS A FIVE-PERSON TEAM, TWICE

(The Size 2 Balor wasn't threading that needle but keeping that sucker out of sight was still an accomplishment)

This slaps so hard! Out of curiosity, how much of this info did you give to your players and how much did you keep hidden? You said they didn't know at which points things got escalated, but did they know which actions raised the alarm? Did they know how big the Scouts alarm radius was, just not to get near them, or neither?

I want to answer some of this with an image, which I can't embed in comments without wizardry that my 3:30 AM brain doesn't understand, so there'll be a followup reply to the main post so I can attach that once I'm done here.

So in reverse order!

  • The Scout radius was visible and marked from the start, no Scan action required. If I'm gonna say "don't get Too Close" in a Map Skirmish Tactics Game, I much prefer to draw a visible line and say "this is Too Close" and allow players to push that line if they feel cheeky. Different dynamics for different games; there's some narrative / theater of the mind / etc situations for "IDK roll for it, how close to you feel you can get", but I like the delicious tension of "ok, we KNOW where the risk is, how do we react to that".
  • They were informed up-front that while the alert level was Low (signified to them as "before we go into Standard Popcorn Initiative" rather than a number, so a watershed moment diegetically rather than a number for them to look out for) being "out of line of sight" would protect them from everyone except the Scouts, and that as long as they did not move into hexes adjacent to enemy units, I would only check line of sight at the end-of-turn, not as a constant game-state action.
  • Beyond that, the guideline I gave them was "hostile actions and suspicious movements will raise the Alert Level", and I clarified "suspicious movements" to be what I said in the previous post, but left "hostile actions" as a chuckling "well, I mean, you tell me, is doing a deep scan of an enemy unit hostile? Is applying Lock-On hostile? How would YOU react?" and leaving it up to them to interpret that, because while I am a strict "no gotchas" GM, I really do appreciate the asymmetry of hidden information.
  • They knew that the convoy would be proceeding up the canyon, and they knew that the Scouts were "picketing for overwatch", but didn't know their exact move patterns or move rates. I keep enemy stats secret until either A: the stat is used (I.E. if an enemy MOVES, it's known that they have a move rate of "at least X", and if an enemy then BOOSTS it's clear what their actual move score is, and if they use a weapon, system or special move, that'll probably (though not definitely) reveal what class the unit is, and will reveal what that move and any synergies do), B: the enemy is Scanned, revealing all basic information, or C: the enemy has previously been Scanned (though if it's a non-obvious variant, they may have different capabilities) so they didn't know what the capabilities of the Monsters, the Scouts, the Hovers, etc were.
  • Similarly, I let them know that if the alarm level ticked up, the enemies would "start to react", but didn't give them the specifics of "only one Scout will move at alert 1, more scouts move as the level goes up", leaving that for them to figure out on their own.

Impressive! Sounds like a well-planned and executed stealth op, with some interesting mechanical twists.

I am of the firm opinion that rules are made to be bent (and even, if need be, broken), especially in the name of building interesting encounters for a tabletop game. There's a fine line when it comes to overly "gimmicky" fights, but if you want to make situations that are memorable and your players will talk about, this is how you do it.

Sounds like it would have been a fun opportunity to test a stealth-oriented build in any case.

Very much agreed. I love gimmicks, I love puzzle-boss encounters - but I'm also a firm believer that in order to bend the rules, they have to be clear. If you know how some things work with firm confidence, that enables you to push and poke at other things, and draw conclusions from that, or even just to make confident moves and put together a working strategy, without feeling like you're just vaguely flailing and pushing buttons like you're playing an RPG written in a language you don't speak except for the damage readout numbers, and praying that you're doing "the thing the GM set up as the proper solution to the puzzle".

Plus, clearly identifying the different moving parts allows me as the GM to step back and go "whoah, damn, that's too much, I'm going to miss triggers here, what mechanics can I remove and replace with descriptive, dramatic language (which is impressive for immersion and framing, but has no immediate mechanical effect unless the players seize on it enthusiastically), how can I get this down to represent the mech anime I have in my mind without being so complicated it takes us 8 hours to get through 3 turns".

"Only one solution" is the worst approach, definitely. It's why when I've GM'd (which is not very often; I love the crunchy bits of encounter design but actually wrangling players outside of that is exhausting for me), I always try to follow a rule of three - that is, particular enemies should have no more than two good defenses, because if they have three, it's probably going to invalidate too many options.

In classic D&D, for example, this would be something like HP, AC, and saves. If an enemy is hard to hit (high AC), it should probably either have low HP or weak saves; you can shut down its evasion and then chew through the HP, or a few good (or lucky) hits can finish it off without too much trouble. This way if everyone is narrowly focused it doesn't risk invalidating everyone's choices.

One of my favourite boss fights that I did get a chance to run was set in a mysterious castle's armoury, where the party had to face off against a giant, magically-animated sword. It was pretty deadly in and of itself (being an improbably large floating sword, and all) but the real trick was that it kept animating the armoury's weapons around them, so they had to deal with shields that would interpose themselves to defend the 'master' sword, crossbows that would harass them with ranged attacks, and so on.

LMAO I said all that in the other response and forgot to say what I actually meant to say about stealth-oriented build.

One of my players in that group is notorious for stealth shenanigans in other games, to the point where their character nickname is often "and featuring [CHARACTERNAME] as A Slight Weight Discrepancy, Nothing Serious", and so when I put this together I wanted to do it in a way that wasn't as simple as "well, I'm invisible, and I get a Hiding bonus, so..."

I did still want to reward "stealth-oriented" builds, but in a way that required their players to think a bit more about positioning, environment, prediction, risks, and less about straight up die rolls, but also not invalidate the mechanics they've worked hard to get.

Interesting. The main reason my own curiousity about stealth builds was piqued is that I've been tinkering with a line of homebrew licenses, two of which are quite stealthy - one is a hacker unit that can isolate enemies from each other via electronic warfare (its variant frame focuses even harder on this) whilst the other is a sniper. So there's a little bit of idle pondering there, on how they could be used to approach the encounter.

That alert increases were also dependent on finding/interacting with wrecks is an interesting touch though -- if one knew (or was able to puzzle out) more of the underlying mechanics, there could be some decent synergy between wreck-removing abilities and stealth eliminations. A sniper unit could also, if well-positioned, pick off any responding units.

Although in this case I would still say the best approach as a player would be to dispose of as few opponents as possible, simply because once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, but three times is enemy action. Taking out too many of them is going to make them suspicious no matter how thoroughly you try to cover it up.

That's a really good observation re: the wreck removal! I ran a couple what-ifs while I was putting together the scenario and settled on "when we spot the wreck" for several reasons. Narratively, it's the peak of the "Scout One has dropped off the grid, something's wrong, go check it out" action arc: you're not hiding the fact that something's wrong, even if you're able to squelch and isolate the unit through a variety of methods, because you're disrupting the regular, multi-layer contact that the picket team has with each other, so unless you're precisely positioned with just the right kind of E-war shenanigans to pull a Payday and convincingly "pick up the walkie-talkie and respond", someone's coming to check it out.

That it's the wreck is also a visual tension timer: even if the players don't know specifically "the alert ticks when they find the wreck", they can see the approach on the map, and put two and two together so to speak. But the "something's wrong!" button was already pushed, so ultimately, things are going to be "high alert", it's only a matter of "will the players have achieved their objective before then" in the combat-rounds timing.

So removing the wreck! I thought about that a little, mostly on the "what if they decide 'we're going to pound the wreck with enough ordnance and environment-affecting abilities (Zheng, etc) to destroy it' or 'we're going to ram it and move it away or throw it (see above Zheng etc)' and spend time doing that", and the key answer there is "time". If they're willing to spend the time to go "slow-and-steady", if they're willing to line up and take the shots, if they're willing to gamble on always landing the hit, always rolling high enough to take down the unit in one round, and then staying in position long enough to use the wreck-eliminating abilities, gambling that the enemy movement will not bring them into sight, and so on... yeah absolutely, that would be rad. And it would recontextualize the way the mission played out, because we'd go from the version I ran which was a tense "we are NOT built for this but let's get sweaty and do our best" affair centered around carefully and strategically trying to position themselves so that they'd take one round of sustained fire, maybe two, and instead we'd turn it into a creepy Mech-Hitman affair, reversing hunter and hunted, but still balancing on that razor edge of "yeah, absolutely, we can keep 'em wondering for two, three, five times as long, but no matter how consistent we are, is it going to be Enough, are we going to slip up at the wrong moment" because there's always the chance that the sniper rolls that 1, or that the damage dice come up 3 instead of 7, or that the un-scanned enemy hovers OVER the hill instead of AROUND the hill... and I think that would just be a phenomenal situation. I might have picked different enemy forces in that case, a picket unit or two with slightly higher HP just in case, but I'd love to see how that unfolded.

Watching the same situation get unpicked with different toolsets is fascinating to me, and I love it when a game is robust enough that just by applying the mechanics diligently, you can get so many different dramatic outcomes, without even changing up the basic rules of engagement or the framing!

I was mostly thinking in terms of third-party frames, like I recall one that's has some gimmicks to do with consuming wrecks to gain resources that it can spend, rather than directly attacking it. I think it's the... Donner, from Marley, Oz, & Silver? Which is part of the Liminal Space 3PP package.

Personally I'd probably just take the hit and run whilst the going was good. A size 1 wreck won't be particularly durable, but I'd also assume from a fluff-ish standpoint that unless I'm using special weapons, then any sufficiently powerful attack is probably going to be seen and/or heard. It's not very covert if the valley and hills echo with the sound of a high-caliber anti-mech rifle and one of the scouts suddenly drops offline, after all. 😉

As for payday pager shenanigans- one thought that did occur to me that I didn't drop in that post was pulling a transponder swap on the trailing convoy vehicle. It wouldn't last a second if you slipped into visual range of someone, but it'd still be a fun little trick to maybe get closer whilst, quite literally, sneaking in under the radar.

For the record, the big wreck removal frame is actually the Gluttony, the Donner is more about hurting enemies that are still moving to use their parts to repair allies.

3rd party not needed for wreck removal though. They're objects! Bury them with Prospector talent. Hide them inside a completely nonsuspicious rock with H0R_OS System Upgrade II. Throw them in a corner with Total Strength Suite I, or Accelerate, or Ferrous Lash, etc. Leave no wreck by making the kill with a miniaturized LinAc... well maybe that's a biiiit much to expect. Though the confusion of "are we getting orbital bombarded???" would at that point be part of the alert level not going sky high yet because of fog of war. Though if a Kidd were present, the answer to that could be, "technically, yes!"

Let's not forget the original wreck/body moving games, Metal Gear Solid and Thief: The Dark Project. It's all about timing.

Funny thing is, one of the stealthiest mechs in our overall group was on the team, but the other one wasn't - and one of the mechs attempting this mission was a freakin' Sherman named "DO NOT STARE INTO BEAM APERTURE." The very definition of "GO LOUD" in mech form.