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foxjar
@foxjar

There's been discussion in the comments of recent staff posts on Pillowfort about how the site needs to appeal to the users who left the site, and those who never signed up in the first place. Which I thought was an interesting topic!

Are there aspects of Cohost you like that Pillowfort doesn't have? Issues Pillowfort has had that have turned you away? Or do you perhaps use both Cohost and Pillowfort for your fannish needs, whether that be sharing content or browsing?

If you know of any discussions about this, whether here on Cohost or elsewhere, I would be really interested to see them!


Goudeneeuw
@Goudeneeuw
Sorry! This post has been deleted by its original author.

Sententiola
@Sententiola

I'm using both at the moment, on a see-what-happens sort of basis.

The interfaces and features each have positive and negative points for me. I prefer Pillowfort's colour-scheme. I like the way the left-hand menu bar stays on screen as you scroll and the fact that you can format multi-image posts more flexibly by just dragging images around without needing to code the formatting yourself. Other than those points the Cohost interface mostly looks and feels nicer and easier, especially the tagging interface, and I like the way content warnings work here.

I'm ambivalent about the role of HMTL and CSS here. In principle it's great that people have more control over their posts and can do more things with them, and I like some of the sutff people do with that. On the other hand I don't know CSS and my HTML is very basic and rusty so it sometimes feels like there are fairly simple things that on another site the user interface would help me do but here it's just a case of 'if you can't code it yourself then you can't do it'. I also find that, while the site itself displays nicely on my smallish laptop screen set to Everything Big Please resolution, people sometimes use CSS in a way that makes their posts too big to fit on my screen. Which I don't hold against the site or the users who do it, it's just a thing.

I've found it a lot easier and quicker to find people whose accounts I want to follow here than I have on Pillowfort. Possibly part of that is the nice simple mechanism Cohost has of inviting you to make an introduction post and give it a specific tag, so it's easy to browse the tag and see who's arriving. On Pillowfort there are various different ways and places for people to introduce themselves but finding them is a bit of a faff. But mainly there just seem to be more people here who are closer to being My Kind Of People. Pillowfort feels full of very young people and very fannish people. Here there seem to be more older folks (though still mostly not as old as me 😄), more people who seem to have broader interests, more people who seem to have good politics (but don't feel the need to constantly demonstrate it), more people who seem to have lives offline as well as online. One point where Pillowfort does better is that it seems to be slightly less dominated by people from North America, but that may just be because Cohost is newer and hasn't had a chance to spread as far from its point of origin.

The atmosphere here seems more casual and friendly. Maybe because the first 'wave' of users here were mostly people who already knew each other or moved in overlapping social circles that already existed outside the site, so it feels like a place of friends, where Pillowfort feels more like a place of strangers who are looking for friends. It also probably helped that I found a couple of people on here that I already knew from elsewhere (hi satah and Cat!). And maybe the greater emphasis on low-effort posting and short throw-away posts here makes it feel like the stakes are lower. Whatever the reason, I find myself slightly less shy about commenting on strangers' posts here than on Pillowfort.

A big thing Pillowfort has that Cohost hasn't got is 'communities', but for me that isn't a particularly important difference because communities are good for pursuing and sharing specific topics of interest and I don't really use social media for that – I tend to want to find people whose vibe I enjoy and then see whatever they happen to post or share, rather than seeking out posts about specific topics.

A final thought: I find it a bit amusing / bemusing how Cohost and Pillowfort are so similar to each other and yet most people on Cohost seem to think of Cohost as an alternative to Twitter (or to a lesser extent Mastodon) while most people on Pillowfort seem to think of Pillowfort as an alternative to Tumblr. I guess it's just for historical reasons to do with which platform people were mostly leaving at different times. I haven't used either Twitter or Tumblr for years (and I've never used Mastodon) so, for me, both Pillowfort and Cohost are mainly competing against Just Not Using Social Media At All. And potentially, in the longer term, against each other.

Oh I forgot to mention Eggbug! Eggbug is cool.


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in reply to @foxjar's post:

I didn't want to put my own reasons for not investing more time/money into Pillowfort in the main post, so here:

I like testing out new fannish platforms a lot. I joined both Twitter and Tumblr in 2009, back when I managed to somehow hear about them despite not knowing anyone who used them (yet!). This was also back when Twitter didn't even have image hosting; it was all text, and we used a site called Twitpic to link to our images (there were probably other sites, but this is what my eventual circle used).

I'm willing to overlook a lot when it comes to using certain sites, especially if the staff are good about dealing with harassment (this is why I pay for Carrd, despite not really needing it. I also pay for a Dreamwidth subscription despite not really needing the additional benefits; I appreciate the content policies so much).

For Pillowfort, for me, I think it's an accumulation of everything. The initial IO domain issue felt like a strange oversight. The security issues. The issues that came during and after they banned loli/shota/fictional underage, and the vague terms that came from that. It wasn't just one thing that turned me away from the platform.

I really wanted to like Pillowfort (and I honestly still do), but especially with that last point, I just felt it better not to invest my time/money into the platform. I still donate occasionally, because I want the site to continue, but it's not for me (at least right now).

What would get me to try the platform again, to invest more time and money into it, would be if they allowed fictional underage/loli/shota, but I don't think this would ever happen.

No .IO domain may be used, directly or indirectly, for any purpose that is sexual or pornographic or that is against the statutory laws of any Nation. In the event of the Registry being advised by any party that a specific site breaches this condition then the Registry reserves the right to immediately deactivate the offending registration. (source)

I’m gonna try to maintain a presence on both sites in the near future, and my hope is that given time and the existence of a bug bounty program Pillowfort’s security problems have been/will be resolved (I don’t know enough about cybersecurity to be more informed on the issue). Both sites have some changes that I’d like to see them make (Pillowfort could really use image descriptions, for instance) but Pillowfort might have more kinks worked out in general just by virtue of having existed longer

Cohost and Pillowfort are pretty similar in many ways, but I'm thinking Pf has more in common with Livejournal, Dreamwidth, and Tumblr and Cohost is more like Twitter?

I'm giving cohost a try, but so far, I much prefer Pillowfort. Starting with the UI, Pf has a much cleaner look. Less cluttered with text and boxes, so visual posts really stand out. Being able to customize your blog a bit (more than here) is also something I appreciate.

Speaking of blogging, my impression is that cohost content is meant to be more ephemeral. Like, my profile page isn't meant to be a blog space, a curated and archived selection of my content and interests because the profile page here isn't indexed/searchable in any way (with tags within my own page or pagination). Like on Pf, I regularly visit other users blogs because I enjoy looking at them and I enjoy making mine nice for others to browse too.

Pf does have a more 'serious' culture (which I like) but I've noticed more philosophical, meta, or personal posts get a lot of attention here too. I have the feeling Pf users might be older in general than here. I haven't come across any dni, anti blogs on Pf, except "dni if you're under 18".

Most of the issues being brought up in the other comments have been competently dealt with already (and cohost doesn't allow fictional underage content either afaik, so that's an unfair comparison). Pf staff have made an explicit choice recently to remain user funded and will avoid google/apple store app problems to protect nsfw posters. I'm a bit uncertain how nsfw content will be protected here when the marketplace starts up since mainstream banking and paypal are not nsfw friendly. Pf is financially precarious in part because a lot of users outside the US can't donate because of this.

It was smart of Cohost to start with a way to earn funds with cohost plus, and Pf should have worked on paid features earlier, but it's coming very soon plus a rolling wait-list to make it easier for people to join and I hope that'll be enough to keep Pf going.

As you can probably tell, I'm invested in Pillowfort just like many of you are invested here :) Cohost and Pillowfort are both cozy, drama-free sites that are so much better than the mega ones. I just hope they will both flourish without pulling users from each other.

Most of the issues that turned people away from Pillowfort have been dealt with, as you said, but they were still negligent (just as Cohost's TOS issues are, which are understandably going to turn people away from using the platform; if Cohost repeatedly shows negligence, as Pillowfort has done, it leaves a bad taste in people's mouths, and I think it's reasonable for people to not want to support the platforms further, nor trust them enough to donate to keep the site running, which is vital).

I also disagree that it's an unfair comparison re: banning fictional underage. Banning fictional underage was one reason of multiple for me (and many others) to start (or continue) losing faith in Pillowfort. It was also a huge issue in how the issue was dealt with in the first place (e.g. banning someone for something that wasn't even in the TOS yet; from what Cohost staff has said, they have hidden loli/shota content from showing up in tags, before the discussion of the ban began, but they haven't banned anyone for it that I'm aware of. They haven't kicked anyone off of the platform for terms not solidified in the TOS/guidelines, that I know of. With that said, I'm still not entirely on board with Cohost, but very willing to give it a shot and explore, just as I gave Pillowfort a shot).

I'm glad to hear Pillowfort is pretty low on drama! And low on antis. Do you know if Pillowfort staff is good about taking down callouts/harassment (so far Cohost has been, which is extremely important to me)? I saw someone calling people pedophiles over fiction on Pillowfort a while back, but I wasn't sure if it was worth reporting. If Pillowfort is as hard on this sort of harassment/bullying, this is something I think more people should hear/know about! That might be a good incentive for some people to try out the site again.

And on being invested in platforms, I understand. I hope Pillowfort flourishes too, even if it's not the site for me to invest more of my time/money into (I have donated in the past, though, because it's important to me for the site to continue).

I can understand that very badly handled TOS issue would piss people off. But that happened more than two years ago (before I joined in fact so I didn't see it first hand). In my experience, Pf staff have obviously learned from that huge mistake, but it's still mentioned to convince others not give Pf a try which isn't really fair. I'm confident they won't go any farther, censorship-wise because they've since isolated Pf from that kind of outside pressure.

They are proactive on callouts/harassment, but more important than that, so are the users. It's an obvious aspect of Pf culture (as I've experienced it). The only anti-like callout I've personally seen was shut down quickly by other users.

Control over your privacy and content has also been getting a lot of attention too with a lot of choice now of who can see/reblog/interact with your blog and posts.

Of course, Pf is a work-in-progress like cohost so it's not perfect and the're learning as they go sometimes. I just want to keep them going during a pretty long development phase because of their small staff.

Hmm...I'm on both and I've noticed that I like coming here more.

I'm not on social media for the fandoms, so I don't engage with those communities. Im an artist and webcomic maker, So it can be tough to find communities to engage with there but it seems to be chugging along on pillowfort. I get a strong adversarial vibe against cohost over there though, because I think they might have eaten up that alarmist Twitter thread about the TOS.

I love posting here a little more because I can't see likes or reblogs. And the ui is satisfying. Anyone can find me, but I don't feel like I need to be boxed into any given community to be seen.

in reply to @Sententiola's post:

It's true for me as well that the large number of game devs and computer literate people here makes me feel out of place sometimes. A lot of posts come by that I just don't get :) And it's interesting that our impression of which site has an older or younger demographic is the exact opposite, lol. I guess it all comes down to who you're following.

When I first joined Pf, I found that following communities was the best way to find people. But they are probably not being used how they were originally intended - as a place for members to actively discuss a particular subject. A few do serve that purpose (like 'WebDiscussions'), but I think most people use them like I do - to reblog a post now and then that matches the topic, a way to share something interesting that I don't like to have on my fort (twitter/tumbler embeds, for instance) or I'll post to a comm because I know somebody who'd appreciate it.

I'd agree on Cohost feeling more casual, Pf is less dominated by north america and both are left of center politically, against censorship, supportive, and non-judgemental. I also appreciate the general absence of DNI culture.

Eggbug is really cute, but since it's an important Cohost cultural thing, I'm curious about its origins!

(is it ok to follow you on Pf too?)