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EctaFoole
@EctaFoole

I have a lot of personal issues with Christianity. I am trying to get through watching Wendigoon (a christian) interview Airdorf (also a christian) about the FAITH games.

Airdorf has said that the FAITH games were inspired by the conspiracies and paranoia of the Satanic Panic era. Airdorf himself talks like the panic was ... bad? Misguided, at least.

But FAITH is expressly in a world where those conspiracy theories are correct, where Satan really is ready to scoop up children and possession gives horrible powers to people. The hero of the story is a shotgun-toting priest who CAN repel monsters with his cross, and it is only actual Christian faith that wins the day.

Given that we are currently in another Satanic Panic, is this not... harmful? Is it not reifying the 'silly' non-existent threat presented by the Satanic Panic? Was the real lesson of that era not that isolated Christians can become dangerous people when influenced by unethical religious leaders?

It makes me really uneasy. I know I'm more anti-christian than most people addressing this but the Satanic Panic wasn't just fun horror ideas, it HURT PEOPLE and ruined careers. There's no acknowledgment of that. It's like Airdorf doesn't know, or doesn't care that his inspiration hurt people in ways not featured in his game.

I dunno. It's troubling.


EctaFoole
@EctaFoole

I need y'all to understand that the tweet he replied to—TODAY—was from a month ago. Mans had to do some real scrolling


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in reply to @EctaFoole's post:

Feels like his concept could probably use at least another go-around in the rock tumbler of introspection.
I would imagine it's probably fairly easy for someone on the Christian side of these incidents to not see the panic then and the panic now as interconnected movements, since the targets are so supposedly different.

They're always looking for a target for their (im)moral panic to be aimed at, and it's always been for the same reason ultimately, wanting to grab power and control. Sometimes they're just more overt about it. (This is a roundabout way of saying I agree with you here.)

Making it the basis for a game feels incredibly fraught at best, and only something I'd want to ever see from non-Christians or otherwise people who were the targets of the satanic panic, not people who were or are the perpetrators

I agree with you. I speak as someone raised Lutheran who left the faith both because I just don't believe in Christian cosmology, and because by the time I finally dislodged their hooks from my psyche, I'd seen one Christian after another use its precepts to disproportionately punish others for small harms while excusing their own major ones.

I have been repeatedly frustrated with this pattern in stories written by Christians--even when purporting to address the wrongs of the past, those acknowledgements only exist metatextually, but the story's own internal cosmology in which those wrongs would have been "right" is always explicit and central to the narrative. There may be genuine desire to do better, but if, in the end, pure emotional attachment to these tropes always overcomes that desire, then what's the point?

I like stories of demonic possession, as both a demoness in my own right and a member of multiple groups (neurodivergent, pansexual, trans fem) who have often been stigmatized by comparison to demons. But I like those stories, specifically, when they're told through the lenses of such marginalized groups, with all the nuance and depth those lenses tend to bring--at minimum, there's empowerment in saying, "Yes, I see the kind of monster you think I am". But when told from the outside by people whose religion has repeatedly been associated with my repression and oppression, such stories become extremely distasteful to me.

Thanks very much for the perspective. I am very much hung up on the fact that FAITH, as a Christian story, posits "what if we HAD been correct to do that shit we did?" It's unsettling.

Orthogonally, you might enjoy this novelette my friend Jade and I wrote. I plan to publish it for free once it's properly edited. It's smutty, earnest, weird romance with a particular and peculiar definition of 'demon' https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CqY4xyu5Kf3yd8srWYvOf7pWTgeK9K_Q4PVDbG5Y6xM

i can't really back this up, but my gut feeling is that christian media is generally Like This — it posits a world where everything every individual christian believes is true, there are no common misconceptions, no one abuses christian belief for selfish gain, etc. also the existence and uniqueness of god is painfully obvious, and everyone who doesn't accept it is just a big idiot. it's like the same framing of christmas movies vis-à-vis santa

and thinking about that now as a pattern, it's... very weird to have this common fantasy that doesn't extend any further than "and i'm right, actually" and even actively excludes the real people who are obviously wrong. i'm not sure it even has any basis in the actual text? isn't the idea of demonic possession basically catholic fanfiction?

in reply to @EctaFoole's post:

God, how insecure does he have to be to respond like that when his game’s that wildly successful?

And we share your discomfort with its satanic panic themes. Particularly in the third and final game of the trilogy, where you spend part of your time in a city. Vicious gangs roam the streets, graffiti is everywhere, buildings are broken down, and the cops are portrayed as this powerless force. Incredibly charged imagery, especially when the world of your fiction insists that conservative talking points about the devil and evil are legit.

Hey, it me, i grew up through some of the height of the satanic panic with parents who absolutely lost their mind to it but also as someone who has no particular attachment to Faith either:

I don't necessarily think a work has to directly reference and point out how bad it's point of inspiration is lest it be considered a tacit endorsement. I think it's ultimately fine to base a work on the paranoid fantasies of boomers in the 80s and 90s. Far as I can tell it's just a "what if reality was actually like that wouldn't that have been wild" thing.

We've all seen that one kinda hacky meme about satire, but at this point I kinda think there needs to be more than "this thing referenced something bad that happened but didn't go out of it's way to show that it was wrong" for me to feel concerned about it.
I think if someone gets convinced that the satanic panic was legit actually because this game depicted an exaggerated version of it, they would probably have been convinced be basically anything. In that case I don't really think it's the creators responsibility tbh.

I don't need to be told Tony's rampage at the end of scarface was bad for the same reason I don't need to be told that the satanic panic was a hoax.

Yeah... Like, I get why it would make some people uncomfortable, and that's perfectly valid, but I'm not sure it's necessarily "problematic". I mean, is Welcome to Night Vale bad because of all of the conspiracy theories that are correct in it? Is Hocus Pocus bad because it doesn't condemn the Elaborated Theory of Witchcraft?

And, I don't know, it just seems kind of weird to blame Christians in general for the Satanic Panic. Most of the victims were also Christians. Because the majority of Americans are Christians.

The reply to a month-old post is certainly odd, but it's possible we're missing context. He could have been sent the post or seen it on his timeline and not checked the date. Also being an ass on X isn't a crime.

you said to me, and I quote,

"If what you're trying to say is "it's not that deep sis, you're too easily offended" then please, just say that"

I'm not really intending to continue this conversation I just wanted to point out you're in no position to accuse people of putting words in your mouth.

So what exactly was Faith satirizing, though? It played all the tropes dead serious and through focus, story, message, and theme the game approved of the priests doing their holy mission. The narrative approved.

That's why I'm confused by your analogy. Tony Montana is expressly condemned in the text. Scarface is not about a cool guy who does violence to fight evil, it's about an awful dude who makes terrible decisions and gets his in the end.

The thing you're saying where a text doesn't HAVE to expressly condemn something would apply better if there weren't literally a fully funded, armed, and dangerous satanic panic being manufactured in the States now. I'm not going to try to argue that FAITH is going to tip anybody over into suddenly believing in real world satanic human sacrifice, but if you're arguing that it's impossible for a work to cause harm by doing everything short of that, we're gonna have to firmly disagree.

If what you're trying to say is "it's not that deep sis, you're too easily offended" then please, just say that

also I just wanna add that while the children of fanatical Christians were absolutely hurt by the panic, they are not the only people hurt. Teachers lost their career and reputation, and pseudo-literary abomination 'Michelle Remembers' paved the way for an entire scam branch of "recovered memory" science that led to innocent people serving prison time. Like it was BAD and a lot of folks never accepted that it was a hoax, and that's why I am concerned about there being a growing body of entertainment media that wants to make serious stories treating demonic possession as a real threat