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ltsquigs
@ltsquigs

Saw people dunking on an IGN article talking about the recent addition of Isekai to the OED and using Frieren and Delicious in Dungeon as examples of the genre.

Of course, those series are not Isekai series (hence the dunkin' on them), but I understand why the author would think to lump in those series into the same area, because while they do not take place in another world, the world they do take place in very much resemble the kind of worlds you often see in Isekai series.

Unfortunately, I don't know if there is a good word for that style of fantasy world out there. The closest I could find is the "LitRPG" genre, but that seems more focused on the meta aspect of a series explicitly having game mechanics rather than the setting.

The kind of world I'm talking about is ones that have been influenced by the mechanical abstractions that were created to make things like TTRPGs and Video Games work.

Abstractions like: Dungeons filled with Treasure, Adventuring Parties, Adventuring Guilds, etc. These abstractions are themselves created from common tropes in classical fantasy, but then formalized and systematized in order to make them playable in games.

For example, in The Lord of The Rings you could describe the fellowship as a party, but no one would use that word in that world and it's not like groups of adventurers are just a common aspect of the world in the way they are in a series like Delicious in Dungeon.

Another example would be in Frieren the idea that there are just dungeons with treasure out there (that all look like that standard Video Game Treasure look) with magic grimoires in them is a very game-y feeling idea.

Maybe I am just unaware of what people call that type of world theses days, but I do think that is the cause of some of the continual cycle of arguing over Isekai lol.



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in reply to @ltsquigs's post:

i dont know if there's a good term for it and i agree with you that these are definitely isekai-adjacent-- i usually describe stuff like that as 'pseudo-isekai' to ppl but i think the closer approximation is something like 'wizardry-inspired fantasy'-- specifically bc you can see a lot of that influence reaching back before the explosion of isekai as a genre

I feel like I often say "sword-and-sorcery fantasy RPG world" or just "sword-and-sorcery fantasy", but I'm not sure if that's the best descriptor? like, LotR has swords, and has sorcery, but idk if I'd call it "sword-and-sorcery", and I'm not totally sure what distinction I'm drawing there

I think it's also interesting in that like, there's a spectrum of these sorts of settings:

  • Dungeon Meshi and Frieren, where the world happens to have a lot of the structures you find in RPGs, but there's no explicit game-like mechanics
  • So I'm A Spider, where levels and skills are explicitly real things that exist in the world and that people are aware of, everyone literally sees a skill selection screen when they gain a level and hears the dialog text in their head like the voice of god when they get an advancement.

and maybe LotR can also be placed there, farther away behind Dungeon Meshi?

there's also like, Sleepy Princess In The Demon Castle, where RPG mechanics exist in the world to whatever extent is funny for whatever bit they're currently doing, but I feel like works explicitly parodying RPG settings should maybe be off on a different axis? I may come back with a chart later lol

I want someone with more free time than me to connect these strands and tell me what other connections I'm missing:

  • Japan's early wide exposure to D&D was originally through Wizardry rather than the tabletop game. Which gets you to Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy.
  • When D&D was translated, one of the popular versions was the actual play account Record of Lodoss War Replay (Which is, IIRC, also where the anime elf ears come from)
  • Sword Art Online in 2002 wasn't the earliest in the "trapped in a VR MMO RPG" genre ( .hack//Sign was in April 2002). But I feel like isekai stories started veering into more explicitly MMO-ish dungeon-crawling directions after that? Anyone familiar enough with 80s anime to tell?
  • Isekai predates the 2012 release of the SAO anime, but it feels like the isekai boom that started around that time leaned pretty heavily in literalized game mechanics, with a bunch of isekai stories that felt like "SAO-except-for-one-change."
  • I've seen claims that Ultima Online was an influence on SAO but can't verify it. In 2002 the most popular MMOs would have been things like Ultima Online, Lineage, Asheron's Call, Everquest, Runescape, Final Fantasy XI, etc.

So, if I had to guess, the standard western fantasy template in Japan is heavily influenced by Wizardry and Lodoss War, whereas the western fantasy in the US/UK has a slightly broader sword and sorcery tradition that's not as closely tied to some of the D&D tropes. (In both cases they also draw from the broader cultural mythology, so you get yōkai or Ivanhoe mixed in, depending.)