jamesmunns
@jamesmunns

Sometimes super-specific domain knowledge shows up in surprising places. Tubular Li-Ion cells (e.g. 18650s, 20700, 21700) are widely used in a LOT of stuff, from power tool battery packs, to electric cars, flashlights, and specifically: electronic cigarettes.

Electronic cigarettes are an interesting application, because they require a LOT of current, typically 10-75W or so, which can be as much as 20 Amps of current in short bursts. They also need to have a relatively high capacity (so you aren't charging it all of the time), as well as be relatively safe (it's near your face).

Before e-cigs, the only application you'd typically buy 18650 cells as a consumer was for high powered flashlights (fun fact, a lot of e-cig history actually derives from high power flashlights, the reason e-cigs are typically called "mods", is that they were originally "modifications" of high power flashlight bodies).

As flashlights were a relatively small and niche market, there weren't a lot of objective "ratings" for cells, which could generally be WAY overstated, especially from shady (read: eBay and AliExpress) vendors. When e-cigs started using these overrated batteries, it could range from disappointing to dangerous.

One of the coolest resources nowadays is from a guy named Mooch315, who is an electrical engineer who does lab-style testing on batteries. He posts his findings, and is pretty much the ONLY source I trust when choosing Lithium Ion batteries, for e-cig purposes or other electronics usages. He even tracks how popular cells are cloned (with substandard replacements), and how to spot fakes.

Here's a link to his forum post, which he regularly updates with recommendations:


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in reply to @jamesmunns's post:

Molicel is also currently the winner for electric aviation; we use 21700 rather than 18650, but we also need high current for short bursts (vertical takeoff and landing) coupled with really good specific energy for range. In 21700, Samsung 50S offers the best specific energy but higher internal resistance, which means worse thermal performance and less usable power at low SoC. Molicel P45B gives slightly less specific energy, dropping range a bit, but requires less cooling and gives better thermal and power margins for vertical takeoff and landing. P45B isn't quite available at volume yet, we're still using 50S for our current prototypes, but looks like availability is ramping up quickly, it will soon be the cell to beat for high power applications.

Yeah, I actually hadn't checked the list in the last year or so, and was surprised to see Molicel so prominently features. I don't think it was on there at all last time I checked. I'm using Samsung 50Es for my e-cig, but I'm also only bursting 25W for 10 seconds at a time or so.

Yeah, we have 50E in a couple of our prototype packs, but they can't produce the power needed for vertical takeoff without overheating; 50S can, but you still hit thermal limits pretty quick. P45B provide so much more power so much cooler. We just got our hands on samples a few months ago, and they have exceeded expectations.

another interesting place for In-Depth Lithium-Ion Discussion is electric skateboard forums - lot of folks are still building their own battery packs due to shipping restrictions

i haven't been in that crowd for a little while now, but Molicel 21700 cells are still one of the go-tos for what i know - iirc the P42A was super popular for a while