ann-arcana

Queen of Burgers 🍔

Writer, game designer, engineer, bisexual tranthing, FFXIV addict

OC: Anna Verde - Primal/Excalibur, Empyreum W12 P14

Mare: E6M76HDMVU
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vectorpoem
@vectorpoem

i'm realizing that a major reason lots of technically savvy people believe weird things about the future is that they have accepted an idea, over the last ~10 years of software trying to eat the world: that anything computable is inevitably, nay soon, going to become practical to compute, at scale, everywhere, for everyone.


i think this is why lots of techies are still generally optimistic about AVs in the face of ever more embarrassing fuckups. they assert that because "the correct + safest set of driver inputs for a given moment of a given driving situation" is computable - and hey, it is; humans compute it by the billions, every day, using our fallible leaky meat brains - then eventually we'll be able to build a computer that can do the same, except more accurate, more responsive, ever-vigilant, less error-prone, and this wondrous computer program will run in every car on the planet, and demand entirely reasonable amounts of electricity.

and that's a hard assertion to talk yourself all the way down to 0% likelihood on, because we all know driving a car isn't rocket science. and in that vague space between "impossible" and "imminent" lots of nerds settle on, "well it may not happen soon but surely computers will get Fast Enough, and probably sooner than we expect right? the computer i'm carrying in my pocket is 100000x faster than my old blah blah blah". and it all feels very reasonable and bets-hedgy, especially when the Smartest *cough*richest*cough* People In The World are leaning hard on the "imminent" end of the scale in their mass-message-making.

i think this deductive slippage gets a little more obvious and psychologically textured when you look at the much wilder things people have convinced themselves about computation. here's something a legendarily unhinged borderline cult leader said:

A Bayesian superintelligence, hooked up to a webcam, would invent General Relativity as a hypothesis ... by the time it had seen the third frame of a falling apple.

so this is basically a nerd dreaming up their very own custom god, right? just kinda putting god together by picking out parts on newegg. and it all depends on that notion of computability. it is theoretically possible that humans could build a computer that could do what is being described here, and hook it up to a $20 logitech webcam and have it figure out Life the Universe and Everything. but there is a kind of abstraction-hiding happening in that thought process, where the computer becomes infinitely capable, effectively a genie's magic lamp. surely, smart people in a room somewhere will figure out some new wonder of the world, and then before long it'll be in our pockets.

and the more i try to model the thinking of these people that, even if they're not horrible gone-forever creeps like yud, believe that all possible computable challenges will eventually fall, the more i realize that this is a kind of mass dereliction of intellectual rigor, a blackout in many an otherwise rational thought process, a mass delusion essentially, that feels somewhat new and novel to the 2010s and 20s. and i feel pretty crazy, in my own head, for standing (reasonably-)confidently outside of that, looking inward, while the revelers circle their golden statue.


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in reply to @vectorpoem's post:

Insofar as driving is a computable activity, I wouldn't attribute this to the human mind as much as I would cars and roads being standardized to the point that people can automatically read them. The horrifying thing is how this still leaves open the possibility of automated drivers optimizing their ability to read the road. More to the point, I don't think computation is how the human mind approaches outside reality. I'd liken it more to heuristics, IE using fuzzy metrics to arrive at some notion of "good enough." This is something that humans have to do, to account for scenarios that are broadly similar to previously encountered ones but whose particulars might be beyond prediction, but also something that computers simply can't do. Any attempt to make a computer rely on heuristics inevitably reduces the latter to computation, defeating the whole point.

You can easily make driving more computable by working the other end - standardizing roads and cars to the point where there's no guesswork and a very simple algorithm could accurately model what to do, but around that point you're just a titch past reinventing trains which is what the whole exercise is meant to avoid

The problem with this approach (be it for autonomous driving or any other kind of model that tries to emulate human behaviour solely based collecting truckloads of data) is that you cannot emulate something, when your basing your emulation on a flawed, or incomplete model. This whole idea very quickly runs into epistemological problems as well, because there's no way of knowing when your model is not flawed in some way, so you will never be able to perfectly emulate something like human behaviour, because you will never be able to perfectly understand it in the first place.

I keep going back to how this obsession with data collection for the sole purpose of finding some underlying truth about Humanity at large, is just the same stuff that physical Anthropology did for the better part of its existence (and to a degree still does, the last time I checked). However, if your approach to understanding humans, is not guided by an underlying theory and a critical understanding that said theory might change with time, everything you do is meaningless at best and incredibly dangerous (as we're seeing right now) at worst.

I've said it before, I'll say it again: the "AI Singularity" is just the Rapture with technology window dressing. You're absolutely right to talk about building a new God to your liking, these beliefs displace religion for those who hold them, and largely take the same shape.

Hi, sorry, this is a tangent but we just want to comment on the LessWrong cult because holy shit we are reading that link and it's really fucking with us.

At one point in our life, when we were around 15, we were fascinated by this rationalist community. It appealed to our way of thinking, and it was really cool to learn about it all! Thankfully, even then, something smelled fishy to us. There was this pompous air of flawlessness and perfection that these rationalists surrounded themselves with. It was very off-putting, and raised multiple red flags. But still for many years we held some respect for this community, and we shudder at the thought that a different Fluffies could fallen in their grasp.

Reading about how horrible these people are, in detail, it's. Unsettling.

US TOO, down to shuddering at the alternate timeline where we got sucked in. we even went and read the entirety of "harry potter and the methods of rationality" as a young adult and at the time we thought it was the best thing we'd ever read. we've been in two different cultlike groups and we are really glad that lesswrong wasn't our third even though it nearly got us

yeah, sorry in the future i'll try to CW any more explicit mention of that stuff. it is an astonishing rabbit hole of evil. and yeah, it appeals to people on the basis of "intelligence", often before they've developed much of any critical consciousness around that concept and all its weird baggage. glad you found paths away from it.

While there have been Singularity Believers for decades, one funny thing is all of this started to reach the described fever pitch right around the time Moore's Law stopped being true. Top end computer hardware hasn't really changed much since 2015, and the rate of improvement is continuing to slow. I don't think we're gonna hit a hard plateau any time soon, but sometimes it seems like everyone buying into this fallacy must've stopped following hardware development circa 2010

sure but otoh if you know how to read so much as a HTML tag like 3/4 of adults will treat you as the priesthood caste and bearer of secret knowledge and fuck if I know how a microchip works but I'd very much like to keep the grift going

This reminds me of a much simpler example of music, and how we already know all reasonable tunes. A few years ago, somebody enumerated all possible tunes up to a certain length (I think 12 notes?) stuck them on a hard drive, and registered them in some way (copyright?). One consequence of this is that after that point, every musician in the world is technically a plagiarist. It was a bit of an art piece pointing out that copyright law is not built to handle this, but it also points out that music didn't just stop. Just like the driving example - there is still a huge gap between "computable" and "useful".

I think these fears of an AI superintelligence really overestimate the measurability of intelligence. Like, Albert Einstein was a bonafied genius, but that didn't stop him wasting the majority of his life thinking in circles on quantum mechanics.