Everything got better when I became a green-haired 2D girl. I do fun and unusual things with video games and pinball.

cohost inspired me to do more. Thank you



I see people getting excited about parry mechanics in their video games, a mechanic that I have never appreciated, but it's mostly because, like, I've never done it. I'm not even particularly clear on the definition of parrying, but I'm guessing it's something like, defending and attacking at the same time by attacking at exactly the right moment.

There is some formative gaming experience where everyone learned to parry and I didn't, right?

Many games want me to parry and seem disappointed in me that I don't, and then they either let me proceed anyway by other means (Tunic) or force me to give up and play a different game (Iconoclasts). And I have tried to parry in those games. It just means I stand around and get hit because I'm doing it wrong, or doing it in the wrong situation, or something.

A judge comment in Make a Good Mega Man Level 3 says something like "a good game design isn't one that punishes beginners and rewards experts; it's one that turns beginners into experts".

Think of how Celeste is a hard precision platformer that brings in players who aren't already interested in or good at precision platformers, because its design encourages you to learn, and gives you the right opportunities to learn. What is the Celeste of parrying?


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in reply to @arborelia's post:

I have two answers for you, depending on what you prefer:
Want a fighting game? SF6. There are several mechanics which fit this niche and the SBMM is pretty okay by now.
Want not-a-fighting-game? Cuphead. Lots of telegraphing what can be parried and relatively forgiving timing.

Honorable mention to Zelda as a series. So many fights in the Zelda series are just playing tennisparrying - Agahnim Z3, Gannondorf OoT, etc.

huh. I mean I play ALttP randomizer all the time, and I wouldn't have realized the Aga fight is an example of parrying. One with very loose timing because the sword spin exists

This led to a moment when I was beating A Link Between Worlds for the first time, where the final Yuga fight has much tighter timing than Aga, and I got frustrated that I kept missing and figured I must be doing something wrong. So I got out the bug net (it works against Aga) and started swinging it around, and happened to do it with perfect timing to hit Yuga like six times and win the battle. This was amazing and not repeatable.

On this list, Cuphead is the one that sounds most likely that I would play it. Does it actually have the Celeste nature? Is it actually going to introduce parrying with good feedback and a learning curve, or is it going to say "lol git gud" without providing a path to gitting gud?

edit: oh wait I also just hate boss fights in general, they just feel like the opposite of gameplay to me, and that's why I'm unlikely to try Cuphead

Yeah uh lots of boss fights. The parry is slow and gentle, and feedback is...pretty ok, overall. But it's a LOT of boss fights.

I think Ryyudo's rec of SMRPG is actually really good. I think Paper Mario has a similar thing? (I have not played any PM)

Also, bugnet kill for ALBW? Truly amazing, nicely done.

i remember final fantasy 16 parries both being pretty easy and pretty rewarding. the main skill of parrying is learning the timing of when to parry for each enemy attack, so if it feels like you're doing it wrong that's pretty normal, you just have to sort of feel out the timing for when that game/enemy thinks you did it right and for which attacks are parry-able at all. i personally find parries to be pretty annoying for that reason

I'd personally argue that Timed Hits (or Defense, more specifically) in Super Mario RPG are a form of parry, which is likely what got my brain into that space for the first time.

As Tina mentioned as well, Tennis and Tennis-likes are functionally also a form of parrying.

Parrying is a rhythm game.

You can parry all you want if you learn the rhythm and tells of your enemy. (This is slightly an oversimplification: enemies in modern games randomize their attacks a lot but they STILL choose attacks based on what you're doing nearby them, so controlling what you do is also part of the rhythm.)

When you spot a tell, you need the suprachiasmatic nucleus in your brain to fire at the right moment for when the attack is arriving.

  • In easier games, this means learning the timing for a couple of early enemies and then using it throughout the game. Often it just gets faster at later points.
  • In harder games this means learning the timing for each individual enemy.
  • In the hardest games, this means learning multiple tells and timings for each enemy, some of which may be based on your own actions.

In practice, this means getting your ass kicked a lot. And then trying again anyway. You can't really learn timings without trying and failing to hit the button at the right time. Visual feedback doesn't usually cut it; only the sting of getting hit will teach you.

I think this is why it's a controversial game tactic. We feel that easier enemies should be possible to defeat automatically, without thought, but in a parry-based game you might be confronted with a timing problem right away, and that means failing early a lot.

there is no unified parry intro experience because video game parrying is just a timing puzzle based on hit boxes you can't see, like super Mario rpg timing. the add-ons are whatever, but that's the core. the button choices vary wildly between games and genres, so gl

Jedi: Fallen Order adjusts the tightness of its lightsaber parry timing based on skill level -- it's relatively generous on Normal/Jedi Knight, and has an easier level than that if you want to start there. iirc Kat has it and/or the sequel (Jedi: Survivor) on PS5, and if I remember correctly, a missed parry (if you keep the button held) largely just becomes a standard block which depletes your stamina.

I love parry mechanics, but I'm often not very good with the timing, so games that give me a more generous window become quite satisfying to master. While I struggle a lot with Souls-likes, the Jedi games were a joy for me.