30 | Game Designer(?) | Arcade Lover | KOF Hippie™ | Ascended & Unhinged Sonic Fan | Sudden Onset Touhou Fan (it's terminal)


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boghog
@boghog

You've probably encountered people who aggressively shame players who do things that are "cheap" or "cheesy" - effective, easy, often repetitive strats that let them win quickly & efficiently. In multiplayer games, this scrub mentality is mocked & discouraged.

In single player games, on the other hand, this mentality doesn't really get much resistance - you will often see players shaming others for spamming moves, looping or exploiting enemy AI, using powerful gear, using summons, etc.

As meaningless as this seems outside of the context of PvP, I think it has several negative long-term consequences for both devs & players.

  1. This creates a culture of peer pressure that blames gamers for playing the games in a way that makes sense internally/formally. Instead of trying to get developers to adjust the formal reward/punishment systems or balance of games, players try to create their own meta-ruleset and enforce it via peer pressure. It's group vs group shaming essentially.

  2. It creates illusions - imaginary games born out of people's theorycrafting, and not sober analysis. Developers want their games to appear complex & deep because it'll draw in new players. Engaged players want the games they play to feel complex & deep because it makes them feel smart & cool. It's in both groups' interest to try and overcomplicate things. Cheesy strats run against this, they simplify games and expose their barebones core.

  3. It makes both balance and difficulty either stagnate, or decline. Most singleplayer games, unlike PvP, don't truly have a strong pressure to be balanced or difficult. How are developers going to learn how to create effective depth, or how to make fun types of difficulty, if the players don't push back on the games?

    This of course has exceptions - arcade games famously earned money in small part because of how balanced & difficult they were. MMO raids & some early access games also have this sort of tug of war design because players compete against the developers. In general, the strongest most developed genres & styles of games tend to have this element. But if players don't feel like breaking games, how is this advancement supposed to happen?

I think the result of all of this is ultimately worse games that rely on creating illusions of complexity, depth, Bigness to cover up how barebones they are when you take their mechanics to their logical conclusion. It creates an illusion of advancement in the field, even when the fundamentals stagnate or even decline.

It also covers up the fact that complexity has a cost - if first order optimal strats should be avoided by default, then games that intentionally keep things simpler for tighter balance will always be at a disadvantage when compared to complex, bloated messes. A real tradeoff of game design becomes a no brainer. And of course it creates some very annoying fans.

So if you're convinced, consider counter-shaming the shamers & encouraging the most ruthless, cold, aggressive cheese!


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in reply to @boghog's post:

A few days ago I got in a debate about kirby's epic yarn, where I argued that saying that the game had no challenge because kirby couldn't die wasn't a valid argument, drawing comparison with some home games (arcade port or otherwise) having free play or other immortality like cc time attack mode, and trying to say that the real problem was that collecting items wasn't a very engaging gameplay loop in this game. Notably, I used some sentence like "you need to search your own fun", which are very akin to what a defender of broken games would say.

That at least got me thinking a bit about this post. There are things allowed in the games that even arcade games defender, should I say that I found the game too easy because I used them, would argue that I am at fault, like using free play or selecting the fairy in raiden fighters. Characters interestingly make the limit between playing on easy mode or using a cheesy strategy murky, because a lot of games see using a particular character as a strategy, even in ones where they're saw nowadays as differents games modes. There is probably some argument that adding too many difficulty or characters have tradeoff similarly like adding too many mechanics; while I've lived the frustration of having either a too easy or too hard difficulty level with no inbetween and I understand why some games after multiples updates and rerelease end up with sometimes 7 difficulty modes, there is something of elegant about the simplicity of resident evil 4 only asking the player if he want to try hard.

What i'm trying to say is not that i necessarily side with the persons condemning the uses of cheeses strategies (vanquish is a good exemple where people were scandalised that games journalist played their games like a cover shooter without thinking that some of the responsibility could be in their game) or that I'm saying that "using a savespot" and "continuing 20 times" are really akin in concept but that I want to point out that the biggest hurdle to overcome will be to prove that you're engaging with the game in good faith, that you're just not inventing problems you could solve by yourself ('cause most people, even myself write review that are "why did i had fun with this game", so any negative review will be understood by "why i didn't and can't possibly have fun with it") which will be complicated as the concept of organic difficulty gain popularity and people will probably see your cheese akin to picking "easy modes" even in case where the cheesing is pretty bad. (organic difficulty isn't inherently a bad thing and a lot of games use it like even arcade games, but at least they substracted something, even just "good player points" from a coherent system)

Yeah you'll have to take a little bit of a hit even when talking about arcade games but it's worth it IMO.

I just outright think that credits shouldn't be allowed in any game, unless explicitly labeled as a cheat & if they disable every reward - otherwise it's a fundamental problem. Most games mostly fix it by clearly distinguishing between bad play and good play via score, even not saving score outright if you're credit feeding and shit.

Characters run up against the idea of conventions - a lot of how we treat things is down to conventions rather than being part of the internal logic of a game. This works in the moment, but as you point out in your post conventions shift & change with time, they are volatile and unreliable. Not to mention, devs can create conventions by selling players on certain concepts, so it's always worth it to think what works as a kind of bottom-up standard rather than how things are atm.

I think it's just outright better if everything is recognized formally and exists within the logic of a game, and as the last part of your post points out it can be something trivial like "good player points" - all of this seems trivial until it isn't, until it passes your personal threshold for arbitrariness. Having it formally recognized also resolves arguments about whether or not a person's engaging in good faith cleanly - it's a much more open & shut case if someone's playing on easy vs them using OP moves