Creator of Tabletop Archaeology 101, and Hostile Takeover. Bookworm, music nerd. avarisclari at tutanota dot com

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hvb
@hvb

alright, so i paid for an artist alley listing for 2wk to promote my new album - i thought, if this results in three (3) sales the listing pays for itself, and at worst i spent $20 to glean some info and support this webbed site. the listing was available when artist alley first opened.

so, what did that translate to? the answer i think is not much of anything. there were 22 visits to the iiiypad bandcamp from cohost during those two weeks, and it's possible some number of those came from my own posts about the album, e.g. during bandcamp friday, but it was at 15 before said friday.

also, the only sales during this period came from bandcamp friday - admittedly it was a pretty successful day though (thank you!!). it is possible that some number of those sales came from people perusing the #music artist alley tag that day. i can't really discern that particular point. but aside from the happy coincidence of having a music listing up during an external event that encourages music buying, i don't think this was a successful listing.

i think there's pros and cons to having the artist alley be its own separate section of the site that you can totally ignore; when i bought the listing i didn't quite understand that was how it would work. i like taking a peek at it every few days, and i'm sure there's others who do too, but overall my suspicion would be that visibility is low. i would also not be surprised if views of the artist alley section in general diminished after a few days... but that's just me speculating.

would i take out another listing though? probably! i could see myself trying to advertise differently or promote something else at least once or twice, but to keep using it regularly, i think i'd want to see some results. it is not the worst way to spend $10 but it needs to be more impactful beyond test runs...


avarisclari
@avarisclari

It honestly wasn't much different, though there were some differences. I paid for 1wk myself to test the waters and actually had to file a bug report when the listing was still live after that period. I listed my board game Hostile Takeover and while I saw a massive spike in views (from averaging 0 to 30 a day) I sold one copy. Sure it technically made up for the price of Artist Alley but from what I saw, the current way it works is a little too chaotic for anyone except the people everyone recognizes to get anything out of it, just like most forms of advertising.


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in reply to @hvb's post:

I can give you a bit of perspective of how I used it if it helps. I feel like this would be a common pattern.

On the first two days, I actively looked at the AA, seeing a lot of cool stuff, being happy that so many supported the site and got their work out there in an "accessible" way. $10 for a week of ads? Everyone wins in this situation... But that comes with the caveat that everyone wins. You're suddenly competing for interest with everything in the AA, when before, it was organically coming up in relevant feeds.

However, the fact that AA is in the sidebar, and, well, IS an ad platform... I haven't really gone back to it. I can't bother to check for new listings constantly in the event that something new catches my eye, when most of the ads I had seen on there I had already seen when I had gone back previously.

The AA is an awesome idea, but... Maybe it needs to be more at the front of a user's mind to check. Perhaps a more forward facing AA is what the site needs?

i get that the staff probably don't want to compromise their "no ads" vision any more than this, and from an end user perspective it's nice that they are cordoned off where you don't have to view them unless you want to - they are ads after all! but yeah, it's hard to imagine that resulting in anything but low visibility/traction in the long run. i dunno what the answer is; i also assume other people are like me and tend to tune ads out automatically anyway when they crop up between posts on other sites.

good point about new listings getting buried by existing ones as a returning artist alley viewer - maybe something like the ability to hide listings easily would be helpful in keeping it fresh, so you could check back and actually see new stuff.

This is why the devs' reaction to realizing they forgot to expire ads and people got free weeks of ads being "oh well good for them!" didn't sit right with me. Aside from people who DID pay for more weeks getting nothing, more ads means those people that did pay got less eyes on their ads with over 100 ads there that weren't supposed to be there.

in reply to @hvb's post:

i signed up on the first day and got a meaningful spike in views and purchases, riding on a combination of the newness of the feature and presumably plain luck. in raw numbers, i didn't quite make back what i spent, getting 29 visits that led to 5 sales totaling $17 in two weeks, but i was definitely not expecting to make the investment back, that's not even the point

i was happy with what i got out of it, though i haven't been back to artist alley in a week or so, partially because when i visit it i see largely the same listings as before

extremely hard to tell how well my ad did, since bandcamp Friday also made it sensible for people to wait until then and then buy directly, but i did see a lot of visits from cohost to our page, so my gut feeling is that it did its job

however i think an ad longer than a week makes no sense. after a week the visits from cohost dried up almost completely. (for the record i don't regret spending $40 for the sake of the website, but i think it would be just as effective to do 1 week, and much more effective to do 4 different ads for 1 week each).

i agree a random ad should be served to the main page (under cohost corner seems fine to me), that would make longer-running ads more sensible to me...

as for me as a consumer, i do go to AA every few days and just look at the new stuff added. i can't be mad about AA because i found quite a few awesome things* but my usage pattern makes long running ads totally useless

*i made a whole post about this but i think at least allowing ppl to easily give ads more visibility on their main TL would also help a bit here

as a possible talking data point- i saw your ad on AA and wishlisted your album that day so that i could wait until bandcamp friday to purchase. to be completely transparent I clicked because i liked the album art, and bought after listening to the whole album a couple times and really liking it.

so at the very least for me the selling point was really the quality

this post reminded me to go back to the AA and I ended up buying a few things as a result. I think we can as a community maybe encourage each other to do this which might help.. I am definitely on team "it's OK to show us some of these on the regular dashboard even if its on its own little area"

it ended up being totally worth it to me, though i can echo other people's observation that you only really see returns on an ad for the first few days or so. my intention is to come back and buy a week once a month, for that reason!

though that being said, what i was advertising was free: i was looking for people to add my game to their steam wishlist. when i say it was "worth it," i'm using the industry assumption that about 10% of your wishlisters will buy the game. i do wonder if artist alley wishlist adds will be more or less than that?

I think chost should allow people to opt in to having artist alley appear on your feed, and perhaps make it default to show one or two at the bottom of the page. Tbh, I checked it once or twice, but it's hard for one thing to grab my attention when I'm shown dozens at the same time

I got 4 weeks for an album (Nestos Me Toi), that's currently still ongoing (only a few days in). I've gotten a spike of listens, no purchases. I went in vaguelly expecting to not get any purchases, since Nestos Me Toi is the kind of album with an extremely small niche of people who actually like that kind of stuff, and my label keeps putting the album on free album code lists without asking me first so I expect everyone who wants it has already grabbed it for free, or knows they can grab it for free.

Notably, though, I got my first clear sign of someone listening to the entire album all the way through from the store page. While I can see the album has been grabbed by a LOT of people with free album codes, nobody's actually listened to the whole thing from the store page or the official album stream yet; kind of a nice bit of validation I guess.

I'm more glad to have been able to give ASC a handful of cash for something that I actually want. None of the features in cohost plus are things that I personally want (something you'll always have to deal with running that kind of subscription) and it's easier for me to occasionally drop $55 CAD than it is to add another monthly fee over $5 CAD. I hope AA works out, but it does look like ASC will have to be a bit more proactive with making long-term ads worth it, like having an optional AA box somewhere on the main feed screen as suggested by others, or something like having a section at the top of the AA screen for listings from pages that you're following.