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Adult - Plants-liking queer menace - Front-desk worker of a plural system - Unapologetic low-effort poster

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bazelgeuse-apologist
@bazelgeuse-apologist

wish there was more conversation in plural spaces about living as plural :c a lot of conversation seems to revolve around What Kind Of System/Headmate Am I (And What Are The Right Labels For Me To Use) and as someones who've done our time in the navelgazing mines (we've been here ten! years!) our eyes just kind of glaze over whenever someone starts bringing up Terms

like in our experience at least, all of those little differences that the terms hairsplit over... most just don't matter that much in daily life, and for the ones that do, they're better expressed in everyday language than in niche microlabels. where is the talk about like, how to overcome anxiety about talking to the system's friends as someone who doesn't come out much? figuring out who you are in the outer world when you're effectively less than a ghost to it? making friends, finding hobbies, creating your own reason for existing once you've outgrown the circumstances that created you?

there's so much discussion about being, but not about living, y'know?


BappyDeerHooves
@BappyDeerHooves

this so much

i don't know where to look for help or advice with actually living as plural, not just having one person handle everything and pretending to be a weird-singlet but actually considering what it means to have multiple people share one life

and it looks like everybody i know just has to sit down and reinvent all of that from first principles. i don't think we should be doing that, i think enough of us have had relationships before to put together advice for that, i think enough of us have tried coming out to give advice for that, i think enough of us have lived lives to talk about it

and every resource i can find doesn't touch on any sort of advice. only terms, sometimes clinical, sometimes informal and fun, but only terms. am i just awful at looking, or what?

i try my best to talk about these things with friends and give advice, and in some places that means i end up being the older advice-giver - but i know nothing! only tiny scraps of experience and a lot of time thinking not doing because doing is hard and we don't know how. how is the bar so low?

really, we want to do our best to change that - sitting down to talk about plurality on our website, but when it came to "and here's how you should treat us and work with us", kind of just blanking on what to write

something i imagine is related is the way that many of the plurality resources we've seen try to be general enough to describe all possible plurality - avoiding any bias, avoiding any particular speaker or perspective - and in doing so, lose the ability to say much in particular. a lot of "you might see X", "you might do X", "some systems have Y, and Y ranges significantly in form and function" to the point that it doesn't give across a good idea of any system

it feels like we're just cataloguing eachother, like we're trying to do some kind of science on eachother.

anyways. if you know any good counterexamples or resources or something, please feel free to add it on! (ideally as a repost so other people see it)


bazelgeuse-apologist
@bazelgeuse-apologist

holy dang, this post resonated with a lot of people! I'm too tired to contribute many thoughts atm but I thought I'd link The Dragonheart Collective's plural essays and LB Lee's plural essays (LB also runs Healthy Multiplicity) - I've found that both of them eschew labeling in favor of practical advice on how to get daily life together.

edit: chucking a few more things in here

Plural Etiquette Questionnaire

Living as a Fictive: How to Find, Create, and Broaden Your Identity, With and Without Canon - have not been able to sit down and read through this yet, but have heard plural folks elsewhere mention that it was helpful for identity-building even as non-fictives


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in reply to @bazelgeuse-apologist's post:

I think this is a good chunk of the reason we've pretty much elected to stay clear of any labels beyond 'plural' for whatever's going on with us these past two months of Definitely Being? Like... stewing so much on What Are The Sequence Of Words That Fit What's Going On distracts from our time just... thinking about what it's like doing life stuff. Going to work and chatting with pals and watching stuff and playing games has such a different texture to it now that there's Several of us and our musing on things energy is much better contributed to that than it is toward further accumulating words for our hoard

in reply to @BappyDeerHooves's post:

something i imagine is related is the way that many of the plurality resources we've seen try to be general enough to describe all possible plurality - avoiding any bias, avoiding any particular speaker or perspective

I might have a go at writing, like, a "this is our plurality" thing. We don't have the experience to give a lot of advice to people, but we have espoused the virtue of sharing personal experience like that before, so it makes sense to do it ourselves.
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in reply to @bazelgeuse-apologist's post:

GOSH, speaking as a singlet, the comment on people trying to describe every possible plurality and thus not sharing their own experience is so interesting because.... when I first found In Essence We Agree and became fascinated by the brand-new-to-me concept of striving for healthy plurality, it was A Personal Experience I was looking for, and that's what resonated so powerfully with me.
People on those sites would reference other systems too, like "oh, I know this other system run their collective with business meetings, but we have faerie courts and here's how they work" -- but one of the first things I read that still sticks with me was an essay describing a shy member taking and intentionally holding front to take insults that were meant for another member, and how badly the writer and several other members wanted to step in and help. I've never been plural, but it was an experience that I could relate to so much, I immediately wanted to know more about what this experience was like. I read their essays and I read the essays of friends they recommended, people talking about how they organised themselves, whether they had to leave notes or what being co-conscious is like, answering questions about how they felt about terms or fusion/integration just, for themselves. I read tons and tons of experiences not to like, RESEARCH PROPER PLURAL REPRESENTATION (I didn't know anything about representation yet), but just because it was INTERESTING. I wrote clumsy stories about plural characters in class. One long-term friend saw my random fascination that I couldn't stop talking about, looked up the websites I recommended, and eventually shared with me that she had been plural all this time and just didn't have words for it.

So much of my own ability to be chill and delighted to meet plural folks and learn their specific experiences, despite having nothing like it of my own, came from this foundation, this privilege of getting to see what this way of being was like for a lot of people on a personal level. So, as much as I'm not the target demographic here at all, man... it seems like such an important part.

At some point, I feel like labels can just be an endless distraction of trying to find the Magic Words That Won't Get People Mad At You, when being plural is inherently something society doesn't like and gets mad about. It's like trying to find the one magical way to prevent the thing that WILL happen from happening, and it's kinda sad to watch. (Like, the whole genic slapfight got sparked by someone trying to craft purposely esoteric, abstruse terminology to completely avoid all other plural words ever previously used so as to avoid claims of ableism and WELL WE SEE HOW THAT WORKED OUT.)