i guess follow me @bethposting on bsky or pillowfort


discord username:
bethposting

Starra
@Starra

and why I always find the kitchen-sink style of modpack to quickly stop being interesting, particularly in multiplayer.

I think it's because I like to have interesting problems to solve, or at least things I can do that are Helpful. Building a factory that makes something people need, making (part of) a transport network, setting up a complicated magic mod's altar structure for communal use, that sort of thing.

Large modpacks, however, have two issues I've come across that make this a lot harder to do than it would seem:


  1. A lot of mods seem poorly balanced for multiplayer, and things end up in a state where, if I take a break for a few days (or, heaven forbid, join a server after it starts), anyone who hasn't has progressed massively in various mods1 and already solved most of the interesting problems.
  2. Having a bunch of mods that all do the same general thing means that they all have different approaches to doing the same things. Inevitably, some of these ways are going to be significantly easier than others, and often what one mod is designed around being difficult, expensive, or at the very least interesting to do/obtain/set up (such as brass in Create or steel in IE2) is trivial and much more boring in another mod3.

As a result, I generally end up joining a server, setting up a house, working on a project or two, and then losing interest as the possibilities close off and I start to fall behind in my capabilities. Sure, I could do things as vanity projects (or, as a friend once said, "vainglorious monuments to our hubris"), but that's often not nearly as satisfying.

Not really sure if I have much of a point writing this, other than "if you want me to stick around in a modded minecraft server, please run something more thought-out than All The Mods 69420" - I just got thinking on the subject again and felt a need to articulate my thoughts.

(Also, these packs often feel like just as much of a hastily thrown-together mess as "kitchen sink modpack" would have you expect, but that's a mini-essay for another time)


  1. Not to mention how most magic-themed mods have progression through combat, and I am Not Good At Minecraft Combat.

  2. IE actually is better about this than many other mods - its refineries for biofuel use a sulfur dust catalyst specifically because adding the more realistic sulfuric acid to IE would have (due to the relative place in the progression of the two mods) utterly trivialized Mekanism's sulfuric acid production process, and the author wanted to avoid that.

  3. No, "you control the buttons you press" doesn't apply in a multiplayer scenario, where other people's priorities may be quite different and your source of enjoyment is solving problems. You can't control the buttons other people press, and once a problem's been solved, a less-optimal solution is pretty much useless.


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in reply to @Starra's post:

oooo yeah, Create is like, my gold standard/big mod for my "vanilla+" approach to modding (in contrast to when I do things like set up TerraFirmaCraft ^^; )

TC isn't as much my thing, but it's definitely iconic, and definitely is good for not stepping on Create's toes (since there's very little automation for anything not TC-related) - brass can be made in the smelter, but I'm not sure it's any easier to do so than in Create (you still need to go to the nether)

It's interesting, everybody calls Create "Vanilla+" but in terms of gameplay it really isn't I think? And that's a compliment to it. I don't know. Aesthetically it fits very well with vanilla, though.

It definitely fits in very well - the reason I tend to include it under "vanilla+" is because it very much feels like the closest thing to how an Official™ automation system would be implemented: aesthetically matching, not particularly Serious™ in presentation/theming, provides puzzle pieces that the player can fit together to make solutions (rather than the Tekkit-era approach of "this is The Block That Does X"), lots of decorative features & uses

Yeah absolutely. Tekkit-era stuff wasn't even the worst about it either, it's later in 1.6.4 and 1.7.10 when Thermal Expansion came out and Mekanism got really popular. That was peak "here is your one block that does the thing"

oh yes please

I actually was working on a datapack to integrate the two in a way that fit TFC's balance for a while, but eventually gave up when I realized the integrations I wanted would require a proper mod to be made to modify the behaviors of some things. Might come back to it though!

(The main change I made balance-wise was that, instead of coming up with a TFC-friendly way to produce andesite alloy, I instead had those recipes use iron components; this both served as a progression gate and avoided the problem of coming up with a sensible explanation for what andesite alloy even is)

For me, Minecraft is still at its core about building interesting things. So I tend to like the mods that give you more toys to play with there. I'm much less interested in the mods that turn Minecraft into Factorio or add super in depth magic because I've got other games I play for those experiences.

One reason I stopped doing modded minecraft was the fact that not only do a lot of mods have overlap in what they do, but they also seemed to know it and take personal offense to the idea that another mod might provide something in a better manner than they did. So then came the invention of all the made-up alloys to make sure you could only ever progress in their mod using only their intended tech tree.

Another reason I stopped is because, well, the base game has a lot more to do than it did back when I got bored of Minecraft and was called back by FTB Ultimate in version 1.4. (Enchanting is still silly, but even the change there from ye olde days is a massive improvement) Redstone isn't just a "hey you can build a computer inside your computer" but has enough ways of interacting with the world to build machines that are actually useful, and the Rube Goldberg appreciator in me enjoys the machines the community builds to farm things more than Here's A Block That Does That.

Like Zdarlight said, we also don't need mods to remake factory games, because Factorio -- which I believe the dev I think said was kickstarted by modded minecraft existing -- kicked off the new wave of factory games. Satisfactory, Astro Colony, and many I haven't played, all do it better because they can escape the confines of Minecraft and do their own thing.

Create looks like one of the few content mods I'd be interested in these days. Because who can resist a good Victorian age train. I tried looking around for magic mods to do something different, but a lot of magic mods are 1) abandoned or otherwise stuck in the past, 2) are just tech mods but with magic instead of RF and with way more steps to achieve the same result, 3) absurdly over powered.