Hi, I'm a game dev interested in all sorts of action games but primarily shmups and beat 'em ups right now.

Working on Armed Decobot, beat 'em up/shmup hybrid atm. Was the game designer on Gunvein & Mechanical Star Astra (on hold).

This is my blog, a low-stakes space where I can sort out messy thoughts without worrying too much about verifying anything. You shouldn't trust me about statistical claims or even specific examples, in fact don't trust me about anything, take it in and think for yourself ๐Ÿ˜Ž

Most posts are general but if I'm posting about something, it probably relates to my own gamedev in one way or another.


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The most exciting parts of action games lie outside of attacks, the attacks themselves are just a means to an end.

An interesting aspect of oldschool 2D beat 'em design that has been lost to time is instant, unreactable attacks. Unlike newer games where enemies have wind ups that give you ample time to dodge or parry, in older games the general idea is that if an enemy attacked, you've already lost the exchange.

This design is generally frowned upon in the Souls and CAG era of beat em up design. But it has some very unique, important elements which are very hard to recreate with reactable attacks. The main thing they do is make the spacing game more fuzzy & continuous.

Because enemy behaviors and attacks are (hopefully) both complex enough to create a range of preceding and following states/responses, and have a degree of randomness to them, this creates preemptive probabilistic decision making - tactical, informed guesswork.

You will generally know when an enemy is going to attack and when they won't, and have some ranges in mind. You will know that if you are too close to an enemy, they will be more likely to do x attack, and if you're far they will do y attack. Unlike say, AOE damage zones however, these borders are fuzzy, and the fuzziness creates room for interesting decision making. Say an enemy is in their active range and you've grabbed another dude. Do you go for a 3 hit grab attack before throwing the dude, or do you play it safe and throw immediately, knowing the attack can come out at any point?

Andores in Final Fight are perhaps the purest example of this at work - they are docile until they decide to bodyslam you, which can range from reactable (from far away) to unreactable (from close up). You have to treat them as a dynamic, fuzzy, ever shifting walking AOE.

The fighting game nerds call it a mental stack. Simply put though it's just how the mere threat of certain attacks can influence your playstyle and decision making.

This fuzzyness becomes more interesting when you add RPS style attacks - if an enemy can semi randomly decide between a throw or a melee attack, it forces you to consider your response preemptively, and informs your tactics. Unreactable attacks allow parries to have true risk vs reward tradeoffs that influence your game plan instead of dominating it.

And like many of the things I advocate for, this is anti-commercial at the moment. Players will probably hate it, and you need to either sell it to them via good staging or just make it feel so tight and good that they'll swallow the frustration. Also the games should be built around this kind of challenge - if most attacks are reactable but then you suddenly change things up, it makes your game design incoherent and will piss me off personally.

Then there's Streets of Rage 4 which has attacks you can see coming miles away hitting you cuz you're stuck in recovery frames. God dammit Streets of Rage 4.


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in reply to @boghog's post:

I've been replaying Elden Ring recently, and there are definitely instances of this in there. The easiest example is the dragon bosses, where you just have to know how long it's safe to be close to them because they have attacks that linger for so long that dodging won't cut it. You've either already backed off to a safe distance or you're dead.

Oh yeah, though since the flames are so ridiculously huge in the area they cover it feels a lot more binary than smaller attacks. Honestly everyone experiences this with attacks that they can't react to yet cuz they're not used to them, I recall having to shift around my gameplan during the first Crucible Knight fight cuz I had trouble reacting to his tail attack. The problem is just that it disappears once you get good enough at predicting the attack, while actually unreactable stuff stays fuzzy forever

Not in particular, it's just something I've been saying for years now even without the beat em up context. Monhun used to have attacks like this, but they were hated by most players and have been phased out over the years. Also linked in my mind to some weird hitscan FPS attacks like Doom 2 archvile flame which often cannot be reactively dodged .

Ah yea, I'm a bit sympathetic to complaints players have in games where most attacks ARE reactable but then you get sudden 3 frame startup pulverizer moves like MonHun (Im assuming) cuz then the devs basically prank the players by teaching them 1 thing and then testing a completely unrelated skill all of a sudden. But in 2D bmups everything's bullshit so nothing is :)

It's not as divorced as you would think because almost every monster used to have extremely fast startup attacks (and a lot still did at least in the 2014 game) and the threat of that interacts with how you position around all the other moves. But like you said it's a staging problem, there isn't an easy way to convey to a new player that you are under threat from those moves even if experienced players know that it's something that can happen from neutral state and to play around that. So it's understandable even if it's disappointing from a combat brainrot perspective.

Seems particularly hard to stage in MonHun, at least if it was a Zone of Enders/Senko No Ronde or even Armored Core style game you could literally draw out threat zones as circles around enemies. Could even telegraph threat levels with % or some shit. No clue what they could even do in MonHun's case, an extra loud persistent looping gulping & "uh oh!" sfx that gets louder & louder when the character's in the fuck-me-up-zone?