bruno

"mr storylets"

writer (derogatory). lead designer on Fallen London.

http://twitter.com/notbrunoagain


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Bluesky
brunodias.bsky.social

alyaza
@alyaza
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nex3
@nex3

LLMs ("large language models") need a lot of input to generate their statistical text models. Orders of magnitude more than is contained in a single webcomic, even one as large as Achewood. The way this works is, roughly, you train a "base model" on approximately the entire internet. Then you take this "base model" and you add additional training on top to give it a specific flavor, such as "Ray Smuckles". The article alludes to this:

The first challenge was formatting the data in a way the language model could use. Then, there was the matter of picking an underlying language model to train with Ray’s voice. OpenAI’s ChatGPT was a little too sanctimonious for Ray, who likes to color outside of the lines, Hall says. They wound up using a fine-tuned version of OpenAI’s Davinci, which Hall estimates is about 60 times more expensive than ChatGPT.

So, this is not just a matter of "he's only using his own writing so it's fine". The model Onstad is working with is exactly as plagiaristic as anything else OpenAI has put out, it just adds a layer of Smucklesiness on top of that. Whether you think "training a statistical model on the entire internet without authors' consent" is specifically plagiarism, otherwise exploitative, or totally fine is up to you. But you can't draw a clean line and say "training AI nonconsensually is bad but what Onstad is doing is okay."


bruno
@bruno

This is one reason why I think this technology is so harmful and the discourse around it is so cognitohazardous. It's poorly-understood in ways that make all sorts of category errors and ethical invisibilities possible. My view is that total rejection is the only acceptable way to behave towards it, because the well is just entirely poisoned by the tech industry trying to both normalize and mislead people about it.

If an LLM was involved in making new Achewood then that's Zombie Achewood. It's dead to me, and so is its author. I won't support it or promote it or feel any excitement that the webcomic is back. Because frankly my position on this is not a nitpicky evaluation of the ethics of any individual case, it's that I want this bathwater out of my house and I don't give a shit how many babies go with it. We can't even begin to have a discussion about the 'best-case scenario' until, frankly, every tech CEO is in the ground.


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in reply to @alyaza's post:

fwiw, my feelings aren't mad that he's doing it, but pity that he's writing new achewood & putting out new merch & has a patreon & generally a new source of income... and he's funnelling that time & money back to OpenAI. which, like, that's his choice to do so. but still it feels like a shame & like the kind of thing that will, a few years down the line, feel similar to the cancelled Netflix show or the cancelled Oni press book. a lot of effort into something that ultimately didn't pay off. maybe i'm wrong! i hope so! but that's what i took from the article.

in reply to @nex3's post:

Everybody has a different line on this stuff! I think it’s worth differentiating from smarterchild shit (even if, yknow, its output doesn’t feel much different) in that it’s built off the input of a whole bunch of unwilling participants. Whether that changes how you feel about it or not is up to you, but I get where folks think the tech is poisonous enough that they don’t want to support it at all, however indirectly

(unaddressed in comments on other posts so putting here) in addition to your point, which i agree with, the ecological cost is still huge on these things- closer to NFTs than a cute little in browser chatbot from a decade ago

Definitely true but this will be addressed in the short term, I think. Models are already available which can run on phones with dedicated tensor hardware at a usable speed, and almost no one needs more power than you can get on a beefy laptop, even if you’re training and not just using the model. These datacenter-scale powerhungry LLMs are tech demos, really. But of course, if they can keep attention they’ll keep being developed.

Porten ran through all 18,000 of Onstad’s Twitter followers and discovered many were Stanford graduates who’d gone into AI. ChatGPT had just come out. AI was hot. What if Onstad did something with those guys?

i feel bad for the guy struggling thru years of burnout and overbearing expectations but short of funneling fans to an NFT scam, this is just about the lowest integrity path out of that i can imagine. there are multiple highly understandable reasons people are clowning onstad for this and throwing "reactionary" at people criticizing him for it is not a winning argument. i'm so fuckin tired of this evil ass SV orchestrated hype wave and we're not even a year in.

$10,000 gets you maybe 83,000 queries, depending on the length of the response

oh god, this man is doing the equivalent of paying $9000/mo to live in the "damn bitch you live like this" apartment, and it's with his own creation. this is going to be such a cautionary tale in a few years' time.

in reply to @bruno's post:

Totally agree on total rejection - I have friends who keep showing me "cool use-case for AI - this one doesn't suck!" and like 9 times out of 10 when you scrape away the veneer there's some incredibly exploitative core to it. It's just not worth it to sift out the rare exceptions because it takes so much energy, and you can't trust the people sharing it because they have this shield of optimistic credulity.

it literally is exactly like the nft craze, where people would constantly be selling tokens that were supposed to be environmentally or economically more fair than others and most of the time it was just bullshit, and even when it wasn't... what was the point? the juice just wasn't worth the squeeze on any of it, and all of it felt like a concerted campaign to get people to buy into the worst possible versions of the scam