Bruno Dias

@bruno

"mr storylets"

he/him
brunodias.dev/

writer (derogatory). lead designer on Fallen London.

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Bruno Dias @bruno2/18/2024, 10:35 PM

Bruno Dias @bruno

Bruno Dias @bruno2/18/2024, 12:21 AM

I think Dark Souls might have ruined the metroidvania genre by making every metroidvania think it has to be "like Dark Souls," ie, pointlessly challenging with an overbearing parry system

Bruno Dias @bruno2/18/2024, 10:19 PM

It was a very funny self-own for me to make this post and then immediately try out Grime, a game that tutorializes the parry before it tutorializes attacking

Bruno Dias @bruno2/18/2024, 10:21 PM

I am tired of the 'good combat' industrial complex I am tired of parrying I am tired of games making me invest time in learning boss patterns before they've done the work of proving they're worth my time

Bruno Dias @bruno2/18/2024, 10:35 PM

Like Dark Souls spends its first hour being easy. It throws a small amount of Dark Souls bullshit at you to let you know it's serious, but it doesn't really demand great execution. The first boss fight is a fakeout you're meant to walk out of, and the second boss fight is a very easy fight. Most importantly, it doesn't require you to execute all of its mechanics effectively to succeed, and it doesn't really try to test you until significantly later in the game. The game actually thinks about your investment and whether you are willing to engage with the challenge at that point in the journey.

Most of those newer souls-inspired games just don't get that, they feel like their difficulty is just a genre convention that they get to deploy. And maybe it is for a segment of the audience, but I just find it kind of presumptuous as a player – by the time Dark Souls stops pulling punches you are deeply invested in that game's story and world. A lot of those games seem to assume that you are playing the game for the difficulty, and like, no, my time is more valuable than that.

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in reply to @bruno's post:

christine @love2/18/2024, 12:24 AM

At least we're not in the alternate universe where everything is exactly the same but "like Dark Souls" means that the Varia Suit has to be a completely inexplicable and unremarked on equippable ring that you find with zero fanfare that indicates you just opened up half the map

:)@Meitsme2/18/2024, 1:56 AM

Darksoulslikes would be way better if the "shields are easy baby mode" narrative had never gained traction

Binary @binary2/18/2024, 2:03 AM

Unironically, yeah, kinda

noah @noahtheduke2/18/2024, 4:54 AM

Thank god Metroid 1 wasn’t pointlessly challenging

Mightfo @Mightfo2/19/2024, 4:12 AM

https://cohost.org/Mightfo/post/4516099-game-design-pacing made this chost inspired based on what you said, thought you may have some further thoughts on it. (didnt rechost because i felt like i was maybe going too off-topic). i feel similarly about souls games but im also in a soort of similar camp to the one that causes similar changes to happen in games

in reply to @bruno's post:

Nire Bryce @NireBryce2/18/2024, 10:27 PM

I'd be more ok with parry mechanics if either the telegraphing was more obvious and the parry windows were slightly longer,

or my health bar and resources were in the center of my monitor so I could actually watch the boss when I most need to be parrying, or not miss a parry and Instantly Die.

I get that on some level UI decisions are for adding stress and making checking health harder, but Who Cares.

It's what kept me off bayonetta too. I can learn these things, but even once learned it's like getting punished for having less peripheral vision or eye speed than most people, or getting punished because I keep thinking the wrong swing animation is telegraphing the parry window I'm thinking for.

Guild Wars 2 was even worse about this since you have to see the telegraphed stuff through spell effects to know when to dodge!

Mightfo @Mightfo2/19/2024, 3:44 AM

i think in guild wars 2 it varies based on how old the boss is, unless i misunderstand what you mean. launch game bosses had like annoying animation watching you had to do and stuff. stuff from the last... 6? years is a lot more FFXIV-ish you could say- relatively clear and relatively consistent visual design language for attacks incoming that doesnt involve "he's doing a funky pose with his leg do i need to roll'

JP @vectorpoem2/18/2024, 10:34 PM

i'm in such an advanced stage of "tired of combat" that not only is combat no longer inherently interesting to me, its abstract existence in a game is a point against my checking it out (to be redeemed, possibly, by other reasons to care).

not that this leaves me without anything interesting to play, but i would say it has completely fucked up my ability to be interested in any of the same stuff other people are interested in.

Bruno Dias @bruno2/18/2024, 10:37 PM

I unironically want a revival of 'bad,' simplistic, easy combat that acts as a pacing mechanism in between other modes of interaction. Which used to be super common but has gone basically extinct now that everyone thinks they have to be like Dark Souls or like God of War or like Devil May Cry.

JP @vectorpoem2/18/2024, 10:48 PM

definitely yeah, there's this sense that combat is so unquestionably mandatory and that all Souls etc brought to the table is that the fashion of what makes "good combat" has shifted a bit. whereas the one remaining game where i absolutely enjoy combat is Doom, where on HMP it's usually just some pleasant twitchy junk food to crunch on as you slug through different spaces and figure out your way through the labyrinth. combat can mean so many things and it's a bummer that the market constantly narrows creators' senses of what to do with it!

@secrets2/18/2024, 10:54 PM

Kinda a pain in the ass that combat (and, specifically, combat in the style of the one or two most popular games at the moment) is so pervasive that even most of the otherwise possibly novel stuff out there has some zombie-fighting mechanic or whatever tacked on that quickly displaces everything actually interesting else the game does.

in reply to @bruno's post:

SnepShark @SnepShark2/18/2024, 11:42 PM

I’ve only played Dark Souls 2, but that’s super surprising to hear. It also starts out very easy, but as early as its second boss (The Pursuer) it’s immediately clear that your only options are 1. co-op, 2. looking up the single solution that brings the fight in line with the difficulty of surrounding encounters, or 3. extreme mastery of the game, far in excess of anything demanded before

spiderflorist @Sol2/19/2024, 2:51 AM

I’ll defend both ds1 and ds2 but only the former has a handle on its difficulty curve. Ds2 absolutely knows that the reputation is The Hard Game and it leans in.

@P-Tux72/19/2024, 12:56 AM

What are your thoughts on the Mega Man games that don't have an intro boss (i.e. most of the classic ones)?

funwalker @funwalker2/19/2024, 5:01 PM

Oh I feel this for sure. I picked up a little vampire-themed souls-like last year because i like vampires and also had pretty good luck with souls-likes thus far (bloodborne, hollow knight, code vein). And never before has a game made me not want to play it after just two screens. The first screen was "here are your moves" and the second screen was an unfair fight that intended for you to have learned how to use them after less than a minute with the game. And I think I've never put a game down so quickly. It was a real disappointment. u__u

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