Hello my name is Bun. If I don't take photos I'll die. Ask me about my favourite parasite.

 

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cathoderaydude
@cathoderaydude

I found this on wikipedia last night and absolutely cannot get over it. it makes me livid

first off, i consider helicopters to be toys. they're like those neon sculptures in the early 20th century - an interesting trick, but not something you'd use for serious applications.

i mean, just look at them. they're contraptions. they're fail-deadly, if the slightest thing goes wrong they crash and explode. they are immensely complex and constantly struggling not to kill their occupants. it is astonishing to me that people have just made helicopters a normal part of life.

i can't picture how someone looks at a helicopter and goes "we should use that for things other than otherwise-impossible mountain rescue operations." it's not even like fixed-wing craft, where they COULD crash but the reality is that 99.99% of flights are safe and the exceptions are almost all perfect storms that will happen once in a lifetime. when you get into a helicopter you are condemning yourself to the grave, and if you get out safely, you're experiencing a probabilistic anomaly. they shouldn't work - and in practice, they don't! they crash a lot!

all the things that helicopters get used for daily are astonishing to me. do we REALLY need to have traffic info that badly? do we REALLY need aerial news photography? why is it legal to run air taxis? we should be using these things for life and death situations and nothing else, it just amazes me to no end that we're so casual about it.

so helicopters baffle me enough on their own. but then militaries are just like "sure, let's build special helicopters that will by their nature always have far fewer hours of operation to prove their airworthiness, and then hang tons of weapons and shit on them, and then put them in the air for hours and hours at a time"

and THEN i find out that THIS is going on, and it's just too much. it's too much! i am flipping my lid at this time!

what really puts me over the edge is that I don't know where to start. there's so much to get upset about

  1. why are there helicopters that are large enough to dwarf a four-engine plane

  2. why is anyone putting a helicopter in the air long enough to need midair refueling

  3. why is anyone operating a helicopter far enough from base that it makes SENSE to midair refuel

  4. why is anyone operating TWO helicopters in this fashion SO consistently that they DEVELOPED A DUAL-CRAFT CAPABLE TANKER JUST FOR THIS PURPOSE

  5. helicopters go up and sideways and a little bit forward. like, gently, for stations keeping, or getting from one place to another eventually.* it is illegal that they can maintain a consistent forward velocity above the stall speed of any plane larger than a cessna 152. there is NO WAY a helicopter could fly in formation with a fixed wing craft. i reject this. i reject ALL of this

every time i look at the picture i come at it from a different direction, my brain randomly picks one of these things to get mad at and then i bounce through all the others as if it's my first time looking at the picture, every time. i think i'm having a stroke and i think i've been having it since 1AM

* yes, i know that helicopters can go forward very fast. but i don't accept it.


Cynosura
@Cynosura

helicopters are horrifying abominations of aerodynamics and it is mind-boggling that they ever became anything more than a novelty

and that's why they're cool


Atomsite
@Atomsite

I think we should make helicopters but safe, I think we as a society can do it


bungo
@bungo

we will not make a helicopter or, through inaction, allow a helicopter to be made


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in reply to @cathoderaydude's post:

they crash a lot!

Citation needed.

Seriously, you do know about autorotation right? It's like maple seeds, the ones with one wing growing off the side? They spin as they fall down, increasing the length of the path of the wing through the air, giving it more opportunity to produce lift from its descent. A seed with two wings like a glider wouldn't work nearly as well, it's not as safe. Helicopters can be operated the same way, unpowered, in case of engine failure, and safely descend to the ground in most situations. This was such an important selling point early on in aviation that helicopters were considered the craft of the future over planes, which were considered much more dangerous. There's even autogyros, which use autorotation to generate all their lift, using their engines only to propel themselves forward, they don't even have a motor hooked up to the rotor.

Personally if I'm going to be stuck in an aircraft that suddenly loses power midflight, I'd pick a helicopter over a plane or even a glider. Helicopters are safer in many more situations than the other two. With a glider you have to hope you can fall far enough with the nose pointed down to eventually generate enough lift to safely pull out of it. Seriously, try dropping a paper airplane sometime. It might just barely pull out before it hits the ground if you drop it far enough, in which case, great, you've got forward momentum relative to the ground to deal with now too, hopefully it canceled out enough of your downward momentum to even be helpful. A helicopter in that situation would start generating lift immediately and safely float you down. Nothing safer than that besides a parachute. Which actually many helicopters can also use, since unlike on planes it doesn't matter that they also cancel out forward momentum, which would be deadly on a fixed wing craft.

So, are they contraptions? yeah, probably, they're not the most reliable since they're so much harder to fly, they're pretty dang inefficient, and nobody likes to have them around. But are they deadly? only very rarely, and almost never in an unavoidable way. Helicopter disasters feed on human error.

also,

  1. the plane is flying at a much higher altitude than the copters, nothing dwarfs a 4 engine plane. (well, nothing single rotor anyway...I seriously hope)

  2. firefighting operations, or any other time it's important to keep an eye in the sky over one small area continuously. A plane would have to keep making passes, helicopters can just hang around. (in practice they'll be making passes as well due to translational lift IIRC, but much slower ones)

  3. same answer, I sure hope your landing pad isn't on fire...

  4. so one can rescue the other in case one pilot turns out to be an idiot lol, but seriously this is the exact same rig for refueling planes, which you can do in pairs just fine, it's not helicopter specific.

  5. helicopter dynamics continue to work alright up until about half the speed of sound. There's a problem at that point where the side of the rotor going forward faster than the helicopter might actually break the sound barrier, which wreaks havoc on flight dynamics and probably kills the helicopter. (autorotation isn't gonna save you if you lose a rotor.) there's also retreating blade stall to consider, which I don't fully understand, but corrects itself if you let go of the controls, because helicopters are generally pretty safe!

even with autorotation, cheap helicopters like the ones robinson(?) makes require the pilot to react correctly in something like a second or less in the case of a failure in order to not die. fucked!

Autorotation is nice but there is a whooooole lot of single point failure modes in choppers that are just instant death.

There is basically zero redundancy in the rotating assembly, you fundamentally can't. And it's a system that is in constant motion in multiple axises, is subject to a whole lot of vibration, and the entire aircraft is literally hanging from it. Anything breaks or seizes in the whole thing you have a very good chance of going down with no recourse.

If you had wings literally flying off airplanes with no warning and no solution you'd stop flying the damn model. For a Super Puma that's apparently Tuesday and perfectly fine.

here's some wild shit:

Those are CH-53s, they're about 100 feet long, which is the same length as the C-130 in the pic, as you can see. HOWEVER, there is a Russian helicopter called the Mi-26 which is about 130 feet long, and its MAIN ROTOR has a diameter of about 100 feet. AFAIK it's the largest helicopter currently being operated, and it looks like an affront to god when it is in operation.

in reply to @selectric's post:

in reply to @Cynosura's post: