ceargaest

[tʃæɑ̯rˠɣæːst]

linguist & software engineer in Lenapehoking; jewish ancom trans woman.

since twitter's burning gonna try bringing my posts about language stuff and losing my shit over star wars and such here - hi!


username etymology
bosworthtoller.com/5952

amaranth-witch
@amaranth-witch

Periodically have to sit with myself and remember just how absolutely bizarre the origin story of famed Biggest Competitor To Dungeons And Dragons D&D3.X At Home Pathfinder RPG is

because holy shit


amaranth-witch
@amaranth-witch

I can't just say this without explanation, so! I am paraphrasing like hell here, the whole story DOES have more factors than this, but briefly, the story of "how Pathfinder was born".

For a long time, TSR and then later Wizards of the Coast had Dragon magazine and then Dungeon magazine along with it, in-house engines for RPG coverage pointed at all players (Dragon) and specifically DMs (Dungeon). Back in the day they covered more than Just D&D - my first exposure to Traveler came as a result of a Dragon article, same with Call of Cthulhu - but following the Wizards acquisition, Dragon started focusing more and more exclusively on Dungeons and Dragons, with a side splash of "Other WotC products". Eventually, Wizards made the decision "actually, we don't need these magazines; the return is way not worth the effort of keeping up writing and distribution" and axed them. Business move. Pretty standard.

They very soon saw a significant drop-off in sales, especially NEW sales. A drop-off out of line with the circulation of Dragon Magazine, but seemingly related. They tried a bunch of things, lots of different advertising, but it wasn't working: almost like a lot of people were going "oh, these are ads, whatever" and just passing them by. There was a conversion rate, but it didn't make up the sudden shortfall. In puzzled desperation, they decided "Well gee, let's... IDK, let's bring the magazines back" but they couldn't just re-up the publication, for a lot of reasons including, but not limited to "we don't have a magazine publishing staff" and "it has to look organic: we can't show that we goofed, we can't even hint that we goofed, we can't show that kind of weakness" and so they invented Paizo Press for the purpose of bringing back Dungeon and Dragon magazines.

Internally, this was a very simple "spin up a subsidiary with a specialized focus, so we don't have to micromanage in the same hierarchy" move. To the public, this was positioned as "whoah!!! LONG TIME, STORIED PUBLICATION HOUSE PAIZO PRESS (who you've totally heard of obviously you just forgot) APPROACHED US BECAUSE THEY'RE FANS OF 3'RD EDITION! THEY WANNA PUBLISH DRAGON MAGAZINE! THEY LIKE IT SO MUCH THAT THEY'RE ASKING TO BRING IT BACK AFTER ITS TRAGIC DEMISE FOR UNKNOWN REASONS THAT WE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH! MAGS BACK BABY!"

The wild part is: it worked! People cheered the return of Dragon and Dungeon, and later Polyhedron (which wouldn't last too long but was aimed at covering non-D&D d20 branded games). Before too long, Paizo started printing long-form adventure paths in Dungeon Magazine, which eventually turned into their own subscription product. I'm not gonna pie in the sky and say everything was Perfect And Good, but I will say, sustaining interest in a Lifestyle Brand is a lot easier when you have a bustling ecosystem of (technically) third-party stuff supporting and funneling towards Brand Loyalty, and Paizo was doing a very good job of that.

So, of course, Wizards shuttered them with minimal (some sources say "no") warning.

This happened during the sunsetting of 3.X, prior to the launch of 4E, give or take. The reasons given were similar to the last time: the company was healthy but it wasn't healthy ENOUGH, we're worried about the way it might transition into 4E territory, (we don't wanna give players too much extra proof they could have homebrew freedom or they might not buy our books) WE DIDN'T SAY THAT PART OUT LOUD, you're profitable but you're just not providing 175% profit growth... nnnnyeah we don't need you, you've got a long and storied history you'll be fine, g'bye Paizo.

So that's the first betrayal/sacrifice of the Edition War that I mentioned: Wizards casually forgetting that Paizo Press was NOT, in fact, outside contractors with a lengthy publication history, and that was a story they'd made up to sell to the public.

And that left Paizo Press standing there going "but. But you literally MADE us TO PUBLISH THESE MAGAZINES. We DIDN'T EXIST before... WE HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE EMPLOYED HERE WHAT THE FUCK". And while they couldn't maintain the Dragon and Dungeon licenses, they hit on the realization of... wait a minute. We have institutional knowledge of how to write and publish 3'rd edition long-form campaigns. The OGL exists; they can't take that back. We could just... keep doing that. See if there's money there in it.

And then to help support that, Paizo pivoted into "and also, we're taking hold of the game these are written for; we're supporting the adventures with a game system that'll stay in print for them, and which we can make our own balance changes to" and they've remained remarkably consistent with that to this day.

But the SECOND betrayal is that thanks to a combination of passive-aggressive Wizards posturing and the way public opinion works, this actual almost-miracle of RPG survival quickly got spun as either "We'll make OUR OWN dungeons and dragons! With blackjack! and hookers! and adventure paths!!!!" or "ho HO! Nyehehehe, since we see an upcoming edition war, let's TAKE ADVANTAGE of that edition war! We shall cripple 4'th edition... BY STEALING THIRD! NYAHAHAHA!" ...which both have some truth to them: "we'll save our company from death by doing what we're known for, just without megacorp support" and "ok, we CAN take advantage of this disgruntled audience if we're careful about it but we don't want to build a toxic foundation" (they were already seeing some of the rehab work that Privateer Press had to put in to recuperate Warmachine's reputation among game store venues) are indeed both things that happened, but much like the origin story of Paizo itself, not at all how it was spun to the public.

And so now here we are, at the end of a weird double-helix of bizarre coincidence, with Paizo and Wizards doing a sort of back-and-forth with each other of "ok, ONE of us is 'we have D&D at home' but which ONE?"

...oh yeah, and for the record, as soon as Paizo was cut loose there was no more Dragon or Dungeon magazines, not really, because the license belonged to Wizards but the institutional knowledge of how to make a magazine belonged to Paizo. I'm pretty sure this affected their sales much like it did the first time around, but I haven't got the data, because that's all mixed up in the 4'th Edition Launch And Subsequent Whirlpool Of Baffling Decisions and I don't have the energy to separate things out while in the middle of moving house.

But yeah.


amaranth-witch
@amaranth-witch

YO THIS IS EXCELLENT, WHAT A FIND, CHECK IT OUT

a lot of these magazines were puff pieces and there's plenty of stuff that has absolutely not aged well but there's also some incredible gems in these pages


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in reply to @amaranth-witch's post:

in reply to @amaranth-witch's post:

Yeah and like... there's a lot that I glare at Paizo for, they're not "the good guys" or even "the scrappy underdog", they're a corporation doing corporate things at this point, but there are a bunch of things that I absolutely 100% have to hand to them, and one is "we started this whole Pathfinder thing to protect the jobs of the people working here" and another is "while far from ideal, we have a very strong track record of showcasing diversity and inclusion in our public-facing work, communications and dealings" and so it cheeses my butt when I see them mischaracterized (not by Stepnix, Stepnix is cool)

"subsidiary" may not be the proper legal/business term, but I couldn't quickly find a more accurate short term for "company formed by Wizards and Wizards-adjacent people for the express purpose of publishing the (currently defunct) Wizards house magazine under exclusive license to Wizards" so... subsidiary it is!

So in 1889, Fujisaro Yamauchi founded a company that made handmade high-quality hanafuda playing cards, and slowly branched out into other card and gaming craftsmanship. By 1929, they were the largest playing card manufacturer in Japan. Following the World Wars and all the way through about '62, they struggled a bit but slowly and carefully maintained stability.

It's during this time that a lot of entertainment companies ended up with various ties to Japanese organized crime, because money is important to keep operating, and government reforms kept companies from getting too big (on paper, the full story is its own history class) but this playing card company managed to remain "clean". Anecdotally, things were looking shaky as the company began diversifying into electronic toys in order to keep up, and offers kept coming in.

Then in 1985, timed very conveniently with the video game crash in the United States and the UK, the Nintendo playing card company, now just Nintendo & Co Ltd, released the Nintendo Entertainment System outside of Japan, and the rest is history: thanks in large part to the cultural prominence and recognition of both the name brand Nintendo and mascots such as Mario the plumber, international scrutiny has led to a pretty squeaky-clean ship, as Mario protects them from the Mafia in multiple markets (this choster has opinions about the way they run THEIR OWN company, but that's neither here nor there).

It occurs to me that, given all this, it sounds entirely possible that Wizards is doing a puppet war 'controlling both sides' thing, where they profit from both sides and both possible endings of the D&D vs. Pathfinder confluct.

And the only reason it's not plausible is because Wizards CLEARLY isn't that smart.

So the funny thing is that in a way, this is actually fallout from their successful puppet war. The vaunted "Open Gaming License" which a lot of designers in the 00's, and then again in the 5E era heralded as "Wow! They're giving away their game for us to use? We can just... use it? WOW so generous!" was a very calculated enclosure maneuver, designed to choke out competition and funnel customers into the d20 market with various loss leader moves, and... well, arguably, it succeeded, since every d20 game was free advertising for D&D3.X, the "official, core, actively supported pillar" of "the world's greatest roleplaying game".

And during the time when Pathfinder was really starting to get their footing, Wizards was actually trying to get rid of the OGL, since they wanted way more direct control during the 4E days (and some of leadership was positing that this was costing them money) but they'd established the rules very clearly, and Pathfinder was following those rules very scrupulously...

They have always been at war with themselves. They keep forgetting that they own both sides, and trying to flee the battlefield which has enriched them. Then they do it again.

Now, Paizo follows in their footsteps, and their ORC license takes up the banner... War has changed... War never changes...

yeaaahhh. I remember when BESM converted to D20, along with a lot of other niche TTRPG games. At first people were excited for an 'easier' system to use and slowly people became less inclined to experiment with very different game systems, which is a shame ):

One slight extra note: Wizards did actually still run Dungeon and Dragon during the 4E era, as digital publications. I'm pretty sure they took it entirely 'in-house', and fully shuttered it around when the 4E Essentials shift happened, just before 5E started. The vast majority of 1st-party adventures came out through Dungeon, including the only full level 1-30 adventure path, Scales of War. There were also a couple of weird character options that were Dragon-only, like the original version of the Assassin class before it was entirely reworked.

Thank you for this little writeup! This puts so much of the weird inconsistency I had heard into perspective. I was actively in the Dungeons & Dragons playing space around the time the 3rd ed to 4th ed transition happened but I wasn't ever into the Magazines so I was unaware of the details regarding the magazine run. From my perspective and what little knowledge I had, I couldn't tell if Paizo was indie or subsidary, and Whelp. Some of what was passed along by friends at the time was that Wizards 'gave' (in the sense that they would let them use it without contest) Paizo the 3.5 game system because they were moving to 4th ed. I don't know if any of my friends were aware of OGL, I know I certainly wasn't.

We were so happy about Pathfinder being a thing, we were already using their character sheets because we preferred their skill distribution choices but we also had hundreds of dollars worth of 3.5e game books between us all it was nice to keep using largely the same stuff with just a few tweaks. None of us liked 4th ed. lol.