ch00beh

✨ software pretengineer ✨

i'm here to dumb ass and chew bubblegum and i'm all out of bubblegum

name gen: @onomancer

capybara dating app: @capybr


staff
@staff

hi folks! jae here, back with a new financial update.

you'll probably remember that the last financial update was fairly dire. this wasn't hyperbole; we were in an extremely tenuous position at the time.

fortunately, it turns out being honest about the issues you're facing is a good way to get help with those issues. since the last financial update, we've seen a huge bump in subscriber numbers, short-term revenue, and MRR. this has been huge for us! we are no longer in the position we were.

it's important to note, though, that it is not all from the financial update. while we got a big bump after that was published, it tapered off fairly quickly. our most sustainable growth has come from the large wave of new and returning users we gained from twitter's most recent Bad Decision. we're happy you're all here! thanks for using cohost.

i'd like to try and keep this installment short, so let's get on with it. if you need help on terms, check the past financial updates.


Revenue, Expenses, and Users

CategoryAs of 7/11As of 6/15Change
Previous month revenue$31.5k$4.4k+609.7%
Expenses (since 6/15)$26.5kn/an/a
Net income (since 6/15)$5kn/an/a
Active Subscribers25311900+33%
Monthly recurring revenue (MRR)$14k$9k+56%
Subscriber churn rate3.76%4.6%-18.2%
Revenue per subscriber$5.55$4.72+17.5%
Total users162k130k+24.6%
Monthly active users (MAU)22.4k12k+87%
MAU → subscriber conversion rate13.9%17.69%-21.4%

so! a few things:

  • we are no longer in dire straits
  • (almost) every single good number is up, every single bad number is down or stable
  • we had positive net income last month, so despite not having closed additional funding yet we still have more money in the bank than last time
  • our per-subscriber revenue is over $5; a lot of subscribers have increased their quantity of subscriptions
    • we're planning on, once the gift subscription system is in place, converting multiple subscriptions to gift subscriptions so that users who aren't able to afford cohost plus can still take advantage of the benefits
  • our conversion rate is down from the ludicrously high 17.69% to a (still ridiculous but more reasonable) 13.9%. this is still an excellent conversion rate; it's down because MAU is up, but it's not falling in-line with MAU increases; there is still overall subscriber growth.
  • we have gained 32k users since the last financial update, most of which are within the new twitter wave.

Looking forward

in the last update, we talked about a new round of funding. this is still in progress; we will have more to report here once it's completed, and to be totally clear, the hold-up is on our end, not our funder’s. the ball is in our court. fortunately, the revenue situation has changed enough that a lot of the Immediate Urgency has reduced, letting us be more considered about how much we're raising. (again, our goal is to minimize debt.)

now that we have finished launching Asks, I am moving on to start on user tipping. as we've said before, we do not consider tipping to be a revenue source for the company (the default platform fee is 0%, and we do not expect most users to diverge from the default). the infrastructure for user tipping is also required for us to launch user subscriptions, which we do view as a revenue source.

the rollout for user tipping will be a bit different from our standard rollouts. we're planning to open to a limited set of users initially so that we can ensure there aren't problems. anything involving money needs to be tested carefully and, while we will have formal validation, there are some issues that only pop up in real life. we'll have more to share here as we get closer.

the response to our thoughts about ads was very different than we expected; we did not think so many of you would be supportive of untargeted, unobtrusive advertising. we have nothing to announce here, but we're thinking about it, and will continue to think about it. we don't intend to ship anything until after user subscriptions are live. (for more context, read the last financial update.)

In Conclusion,

things are looking better than they were last time. the path to some form of sustainability is becoming clearer to us. we're all still exhausted trying to make it happen, but we're glad we're trying and we're glad you're all here with us.

also, if you want to support the site, please consider subscribing to cohost plus.

that's all for this installment, we'll be back in a month-ish with more. thanks for using cohost!

~jae


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in reply to @staff's post:

Thanks for keeping us in the loop!

I can't remember if I mentioned last time, but I'll definitely throw in support for non-targeted, non-obtrusive advertising - specifically, of the sort where Cohost users pay for their own ads to be shown, so all of the advertising comes from within the community. A virtual petsite I encountered does that, and not only did they get a bunch of takers, it was apparently more profitable than running Google ads was. Here's their post about how they implemented that. It'll likely be trickier on a larger-scale social media, but food for thought!

Also some of the "ads" that people submitted were just plain delightful. Shoutouts to Frog of the Month club:

A "graphic design is my passion" style banner ad with some clipart frogs on it and the words "frog of the month frog of the month club / click to join the frog of the month club / only requirement is to witness the frog (of the month) / june issue

I actually really like this idea. This way you can more organically target ads from people you follow or people they follow.

And only suggest pseudo targeted ads because I would like them to be somewhat relavent. Especially, say, if I'm in an indie game dev community. I'd much rather have someone serve their game's ads to me rather than some artist I'm not especially interested in (Or more specifically in my case NSFW art. Just not my jam personally.)

Not the best of examples, but hopefully you get the idea.

I think even this amount of user-based targeting would be too suggestive of the scummy kind of ad targeting, and cause enough uncertainty that people would leave them blocked.

The best kind of ad targeting is when the advertiser chooses where they want to advertise, and that's all. I support non-targeted, non-scummy ads and I would rather they didn't go down the path of "but what if we target them based on user behavior a little bit".

user-submitted ads are a great idea; you don't have to invade user privacy with tracking to satisfy advertisers, you can ensure they aren't mean or nasty, they won't meaningfully slow page loads, and you don't have middlemen skimming from the profits. My suggestions:

  • Cohost staff vets ads before they're shown to anybody.
  • No user-targeting.
  • Cohost plus gives you the option to hide ads, enhancing its value to users.
  • Ads are safe-for-work.
  • ...But Cohost plus users can opt-into NSFW ads, if they want. ;)

I personally would love to see community ads on here! It's specially useful for artists and writers who offer commissions. An example of a large site that uses those is FurAffinity, so it's definitely possible on a larger scale.

This is awesome! I'm not opposed to ads from outside the community in addition to these, but I definitely love the idea of community ads.

In fact, if cohost plus blocks ads, I'd like a seperate opt out toggle for community tags. Cause I'd probably like to see them regardless of my Plus membership, while others might want no ads at all.

see, THIS is what cohost needs. just imagine the shitposting that would be unleashed.

and more seriously I would legit love to see ads from other artists who do Cool Shit. that's how I found Sleepless Domain, which remains my high water mark for magical girl stories. it's a mutually beneficial arrangement between users and the site and shows me things by other people that I might actually like instead of the millionth ad for investing a beer car with bitcoin or whatever twitter's doing.

Thank you for the update! Glad to see financial posts returning with regularity and glad that the site is doing better. I fully agree with the comment above me on the user submitted ads, whenever you might get around to something like that

I didn't comment last time, but I'd like to ADd my support for unobtrusive ads! Let's get Cohost solvent!

I've been telling everyone to move to Cohost for like, a year now. And one of the things people say is "it won't last, cause money". So any small amount will help, in my view, get more people on here! And I'll accept some not shitty ads if it means Cohost is stable =w=

i add myself to the list of people who are ok with ads in cohost. I don't think ads aren't inherently awful, what sucks about them is every practice to min-max their effectiveness at all costs

also thank you!

Thank you for the update!

I'm biased but as an independent artist, I'd definitely like the chance to buy adspace. I have issues with sites like Furaffinity and Flight Rising but the way that they handle ads is not one of them: it's almost always individual creators from within the communities and not, like you mentioned, Toyotathon or something. Lol.

I'm genuinely not sure if this would count as targeted advertising, but maybe we could give our ads "tags" so that they WONT appear if a user has those tags muted? Not trying to posit some algorithmic data-mining scheme, or something. The reason I suggest is because, for us NSFW artists and general niche content creators, it could be easier in ensuring that certain ads would only be seen by people who would actually like to see it. If that's not possible tho I understand.

Glad things are looking up for you guys!

I’m so glad things are looking up! The last financial update was really worrying. Thank you as always for the transparency, it means a lot that the staff is willing to be open about these things

as long as the ads aren't for obviously fake or shadey products like fake mobile games or temu or whatever, it's fine. But I've never seen any site be completely truly good ads since the shutdown of project wonderful (other than the comicad network)

back in the day, tumblr briefly had a monetization feature where you could pay $8 (lol) to pin a post, which means it would appear at the top of your followers' dashboards for 24 hours (and each follower would get a button to unpin the post if they didn't want to see it anymore). crucially, you could pay to pin a post you had not made, so I pinned this post (just the text from tumblr user aveytears, though I can't find an extant copy of the post with just that and nothing else). it was one of those days where everyone went apeshit over a funny thing, and I got the thrill of being the one who did the funny thing. I got a bunch of followers specifically because people wanted the post to become pinned to their dashboard. basically, this was fully worth the $8 and I'd do it again in a heartbeat here if this was a feature

positive net income! wow!

but iirc you don't spread out the yearly subs right? so still looking negative for a couple months out after all the yearlies land? makes sense you're still going for financing. it's real nice we can reach out and touch sustainability tho!

i, as many others have said, 100% support non-targeted ads! ESPECIALLY if they are ads made by users of the site!

honestly i keep my ad block off on FurAffinity because i do really like the ads that users put up! even if they all dont interest me. fun fact, FA banner ads are actually how i found out about my local furry convention all the way back in 2013! so if they are non-targeted ads put up by the community, i most definitely support them! i encourage them, even!

plus with this community, i feel like a lot of people will be using them to post pictures of their cats and other fun shitposty things, along with genuine business ads!

And while a tumblr blaze-style system can be fun, id say keep it off of this site bc it really did turn into PVP there, especially with some people getting mad at anyone that would blaze anything in the replies of the post.

i definitely still love the idea of user-supported ads. like... i have no problem with honest advertising that i know is coming from Actual People and not some giant corporation trying to sell me insurance or a terrible scam or whatever. i think the biggest questions are where you display them and how you vet the people buying them.

i think it would be cute if they were old timey banner ad style... i miss the days where you could check the bottom of a page and find something actually cool linked down there via a banner or a bunch of little 88x31 buttons lol

in the grand scheme of things i would much rather have untargeted ads and/or community supported ads on cohost, than have no cohost (or struggling cohost)

these reports are super reassuring to read even when they're not good news, thanks for doing them! i'm glad it was good news this time, though :eggbug-smile-hearts:

tbh you could definitely set the default tipping percentage higher and no one would care. like, itch io's default 10% is extremely reasonable & better than all competitors - and your competitor here is patreon, who takes a bigger cut than that anyway. everyone gets that you gotta keep the lights on

TBH I really don't mind a self-served community ad. Provided that they are vetted, of course.

I also support "ads with tags" so I will more often see ads relevant to my interests. I don't consider that "targeted"; rather, think of it as "theme-relevant ads". Like, if you're reading a magazine about fishing, you'll definitely end up seeing ads about fishing equipment, and likely very few ads about, say, running shoes...

re: tips and user subscriptions, what steps are you taking to minimize payment processor fees? One of the big draws from Patreon was the ability to lump all your subs together into a single credit card payment, so the minimum amount of money was "lost" and the maximum amount split among creators. And that's something they've stopped supporting by default which sucks imo! there's better solutions than the one they went with (such as prorating the 2nd month's payment so you still have to pay for a full month up-front but the first renewal is discounted instead, and from then on you pay on the 1st in a single lump payment).
One other option is some kind of token system where you buy an intermediary currency and then tip/subscribe using that currency which can then be cashed back out, but that method means you're effectively holding money and might have to deal with banking regulations…
I've put a ton of thought into this because in the past I was in a position to help designing a platform like this, so I just want to make sure this issue is on your radar and that you're considering this as one of the core features of the platform in order to keep the maximum amount of money possible in creators' hands!

thanks for keeping us updated!! i echo many here when I say I'm totally fine and even encourage unobtrusive, untargeted ads. a pet site I'm on has them and I've turned off my ad blocker there because they're from the community and so pleasant

Ah, we meant to but forgot.
Fluffies wanted to add our support for ads. We hate ads, we hate that the internet treats our attention and energy as a resource waiting to be extracted. Plus, ads are a malware vector. We are grateful for Cohost's stand against ads.

But the truth is, we have no issues with Cohost adding (unobtrusive, untargeted) ads, and we would happily set Cohost as the only website in our allow-list. We care about this space, and we are willing to give it some of our attention and energy if it will help it survive.

Furthermore, we actually enjoy certain ads. The kind of ads that only exist within small communities, put up by members of that same community. In the past, when we see some fur advertising a project or their shop in the FA or e621 banner ads, we've thought, they that's pretty cool. We're happy they are giving themselves some exposure. Same goes for comics that advertise themselves in TopWebComics! We never really minded Project Wonderful either and we would be happy to return to that simpler era of the internet. Like, gosh, we know we have our nostalgia glasses on, but we would absolutely not mind if Cohost had ads where its own users could advertise their projects. We'd might even go as far as to say we'd enjoy it! Bring back the old internet please.

Thank you for the update, and gosh it makes us happy to hear things are better. We know this is a shit job where everyone criticises your every decision, but. Thanks for the openness and candidness about the financial situation, and fuck the haters.

this site is crazy because its like "what if we ran a social media site but as human beings and we were even mildly transparent" and i thought that it wouldnt happen and yet it has happened

Last thought on the topic:

With the kind of community response you've gotten, you could make ads opt-in, for all users! Not just those with Cohost Plus! That way, you can stick to your ideals, respect everyone's decision on what they want to be exposed to, and still get a considerable number of ad impressions and a source of income. Yeah you would have to manage internal incentives to not funnel users into enabling ads, convince users this helps cohost, and convince advertisers their ads are still being seen. But, like. Opt-in ads is... a rather radical idea that very few places dare to try. Maybe it has a space here.

I am another non-ads enjoyer but I am also a "Cohost continuing to exist and people being able to eat and stuff" enjoyer, and user-submitted ads like SA or Royal Road are a pretty good, non-disgusting option.

There'd also be a certain old-school vibe to implementing traditional banner ads.

I support a "blaze" like feature, it might be even more successful here than on tumblr. It's also kind of a really unique selling point of a centralized Website vs. the fediverse. You can't pay the fediverse $4.20 to force 1000 people to see your cat.

hurray for good news! Adding fuel to the fire here but I also would pay for the ability to show cohost users my gay ass game and possibly future projects. And I think paying for Twitter, Facebook and most google ads setup is a scam.

As a quick clarification, your reported opex of $26.5k is about 58% of the $46k you reported last month, and is actually less than what you reported paying in salaries last month. Is that number expenses not including salaries?

Edit: is this possibly because you pay out employees twice per month? So those expense numbers only take into account half a month of payroll, the second half of which would happen on the 14th or 17th?

I was telling some friends about my interest in tips and user subscriptions, and one of them mentioned that Co-host uses Stripe for payment processor and Stripe generally doesn't allow adult content. I am personally not creating 18+ content, but could Stripe's stance affect the development and roll-out of tips and user subscriptions?

Re: ads, I'm not opposed to non-targeted ads as long as they are not disruptive to the user experience. I use ad blocks so if there is a ad-unblock reminder that appear in the place of blocked ads, that would be great.

this is also a concern of mine as well. as much as i support cohost's pro-hole-and-pole agenda, i worry that the rug may get pulled out from under the site as it approaches sustainability and starts moving much more money between users and assc/other users. obviously bc of fosta/sesta idk what could be done if this does happen, but i'm curious to see what strategies staff have to mitigate that risk (e.g., itch.io and steam have porn games and haven't had their payment processors cut them off afaik). i don't know as much about this topic as i should and i'd be interested to hear about it.

I am supportive of untargeted ads and would whitelist cohost in my adblocker to support it as long as A) introducing ads didn't threaten nsfw content on cohost (most sites that allow ads sanitize themselves for ad revenue) and B) they don't include visuals that might trigger seizures. I imagine many users would also add a "C) ads aren't nsfw" provision.

With a screen as wide as mine, there's a lot of empty space on each side of the Post Roll for those tall vertical ads. I feel like y'all can definitely pull a Flight Rising- their ads are unobtrusive, nicely fit in with the site design, and are largely advertising cool ass webcomics.