chamomile

Chamomile🐑

@chamomile

Wool and wool accessories

Pronounced "kæməmil"

Large sheep the size of a small sheep! Likes tea, DIY, and nerd stuff. Sysadmin, release engineer and programmer by trade.

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chamomile
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cohostminorityfeed
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TV-MA
@TV-MA

One last discourse for the road

I think one thing people who are trying to create a cohost forum or various discord servers need to keep in mind is, a big part of this site's failure was due to the inability to attract and protect non-white users.

If you are jumping into making a site without considering how you are going to handle moderation and how that moderation is going to protect non-white users, it is going to either fail or turn into the most toxic cesspool imaginable.

Shit like this is why for the most part, I don't bother with most discord servers anyone. Godspeed to those of you who try tho.

cohostminorityfeed
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in reply to @TV-MA's post:

eramdam
@eramdam

nah you're right.

i cant speak for the discord bit because im only active in a specific, tiny, one1 and because I think trying to make a "big discord server of former cohost users" is a doomed idea but at least from what i've seen of the websiteleague thing and how they're approaching things2 I'm hopeful that it won't be a complete failure. time will tell I suppose.

  1. all the others im one are so fucking busy all the time it's genuinely unusable to me lmao

  2. judging by the planning docs that are being written

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TV-MA
@TV-MA

The only way I can see these surviving is if several mods on each of these servers are POC. Otherwise, because of the closed door nature of discord, they're doomed to become even more hostile than cohost was at it's worse.

Also this is not me saying that these servers should pressure POC into moderating. Several time I've been pushed into being the sole POC mod for primarily white servers and each time it sucked and ended badly. I'm not 100% sure what the solution is outside of letting POC run and manage their own shit. This is more of warning to those who are thinking of trying.

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srxl
@srxl

as someone who's been actively trying to help establish the aformentioned website league project, the issues cohost has had around race is definitely something that i'm trying to keep in mind. we haven't quite gotten to laying out moderation yet - most discussions at the moment are about the organizational structure of the project - but i'm cautiously optimistic that we can learn from the mistakes here and aim to build something safer and more welcoming to POC. i'm not fully across the demographics of everyone involved but there are at least some POC voices contributing to plans which certainly helps.

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Codarobo
@Codarobo

I’m honestly even thinking about this kinda thing wrt blogs with comments sections; basically anywhere users can interact with each other needs some consideration for moderation, and the more people are interacting with each other the more important it is. It is the hardest part of websites with any kind of interaction/community component

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TV-MA
@TV-MA

Yea even if you strip the context of specifically protecting POC, most people do not consider moderation when creating these communities. They usually think that putting up a list of rules is good enough. They do not consider that those rules are there to protect people.

Sometimes that comes down to uncomfortable situations with your friends or people you find pleasant. A lot of people have shitty friends that make life hell for those around them in online communities. You have to consider what your tolerance is for burning bridges and engaging with conflict. If you are someone who is set on being conflict adverse, the mostly likely outcome is you're going to alienate that people who need protecting the most. That often comes down to POC.

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TV-MA
@TV-MA

These are all very good points. The point should always be to build upon what made this place special instead of trying to create an illusive club where no outsiders are welcome. It's always important to keep in mind that this site only lasted two years! (Tho to be fair, most online communities have a shelf life)

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nadleeh
@nadleeh

At the very, very least, reports for racist harrassment and dogpiling need to be handled more promptly before the toxic behavior festers and becomes normal within the site's culture (if that makes sense?). I followed a couple of the people who did eventually leave and the general consensus appeared to be that when the staff finally laid down the law, it was just too little and too late. People shouldn't have to be chased away before that stuff is taken seriously.

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TV-MA
@TV-MA

It's not just that, it's that most the time no moderation that happens at all. Like most the problems I ever experienced on discord happened in real time like, there were no reports, but the moderatos could clearly see what was happening. In many cases, moderators will either minimize what's happening or blame it on the person it's happening to. And then if there is one non-white moderator, they will often get blamed for moderating decisions made regardless if it was their ultimate decision or a decision made amongst all the moderators. It's a lot more than just, getting to it on time. It's usually active ignorance and negligence

This is why I'm skeptical of this influx of cohost preserving communities. Cohost already had a problem with racism that helped lead to the site's downfall. If any of these communities are to be maintained, how do moderators intend on preventing those problems when the problems were built into the site? I don't think most people are considering this because 1. they're mostly white and were unaffected and/or 2. it hasn't crossed their mind.

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nadleeh
@nadleeh

This is all good insight. Admittedly, I tend to lean optimistic about people trying new things post-Cohost because I want to believe that people can learn from Cohost's missteps. But of course, it would be just as easy for the cycle to begin anew elsewhere, especially in communities with an overwhelmingly white mod team.

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mathsbian
@mathsbian

I literally just experienced the “get blamed for what’s happening to me” in one of the discords (not a racism thing, ableism; what was being discussed was apparently completely fine up until I complained that I felt like I was being vagued about, and then got a bunch of ableist responses to my explanation of my position). I left! That one is definitely not going to be safe for long because the owner wants to stay out of everything and not have to moderate! And you can’t decide to run a discord, or any online community, and not be willing to do moderation!! Someone, probably sooner than later, is going to be racist in a way that the owner won’t recognize and won’t deal with, and it’s just so obvious that’s coming after what happened to me.

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