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cathoderaydude
@cathoderaydude
meow77
@meow77 asked:

hi its me again
can we get the whole schpiel on usb3 docks that you mentioned in the z600 video?

okay so i didn't go into it largely because i know everyone disagrees with me, but this is my completely biased and unfair opinion of USB-C and USB docks:


  • C cables break at a moments notice. "so did micro USB!" yes, that's correct. USB's low cost is a virtue, but makes it intrinsically unreliable, which is fine for the things it's intended for - temporary attachment of peripherals that come and go. running everything into my PC through a connector that's at best a tiny bit more reliable than mini USB is absurd. a USBC dock is great if you want to sneeze and hear "DOO-DOONK" 16 times as all your devices disconnect and reconnect and your monitor flickers on and off

  • i have been told that the dock cables are no longer stiff as a car antenna but i haven't yet seen proof of this. the first USBC dock I got was in like 2018 and the cable was so fucking thick and rigid that it demanded 12x more space on my desk than a conventional dock so that the cable could make this great big massive arc. i'm convinced that the manufacturers believe that all their users have "macbook desks", those beautiful picture-perfect workspaces that only exist in the homes of silicon valley programmers with no hobbies. just a great big expanse of empty surface, populated by a single dainty monitor stand, a laptop, a wireless keyboard (chiclet keys) and a potted cactus. there you have plenty of room, you can set your dock waaaaaay across the desk from your laptop so the cable doesn't have to bend. i don't have a space like this, and i never will, in my life, and i've never met anyone who did, so it is a tremendous hardship to ask me to put all my ports inexplicably two feet away from my machine.

  • i tried bending the cable around to put the dock behind my machine. in addition to preloading the cable, so it wanted to throw the dock off the desk at all times (and sometimes succeeded) after a couple months, if i bumped the desk, hey how about that: it went DOO-DOONK. DOO-DOONK. DOO-DOONK as everything disconnected and then i'd have to wiggle and unplug it a couple times to get it to reconnect. connector failed with One cycle on it.

  • i simply do not like USBC. we either agree that it's fundamentally poorly designed and will always be unreliable or we don't and i won't be able to convince you

  • i just don't like hooking up a dock with a cable because i don't like it. i think docks should work by docking, that approach makes more sense to me. i don't like the fact that all my ports are not weighed down by the mass of my PC and can get moved around on the desk.

as you can see, i consider none of these points defensible, i also will not be changing my mind thanks


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in reply to @cathoderaydude's post:

The best part is when you dock and something doesn’t work right away but it might work after several agonizing seconds? Earlier this week I docked my laptop and the monitor turned on and off at least a dozen times before stabilizing in a perfectly working configuration as if nothing was ever wrong. And if it doesn’t work (30% odds) then you have to undock, wait for all the drivers to realize you’ve undocked, and only then redock, or else it still won’t work

Don't forget all those times when the Dock simply forgets that it is a Dock, and you have to pull the power to it to reboot. Don't need any watchdog logic when you can crawl under your desk to unplug the outlet.

i never quite understood why every dock seems to have a permanently attached cable. isn't that the point of usb-c?

the stiffness thing reminds me: apple just put out new usb-c cables alongside the new iphone and they've done the impossible and made a usb-c cable that isn't stiff. they don't have a permanent kink to them from being rolled up in the box, there's no resistance to bending them. if they also stay together for longer than a few months, they might've cracked it

They do it because everything in USB-C needs a "flippy multiplexer" to switch the cable pins around when you plug in the cable upside down. By soldering in one end exactly the right way up, they can skip that part.

No I have no idea why it's still okay for the other end of the cable to go in either way. Try not to thonk about it too hard.

Replace its cable with a better one. Get a cable long enough to loop around from your dock to the correct side of your laptop.

Oh right, every single dock has a 2 inch cable molded into it! You can't replace that cable. Oopsy doopsy. Time to buy an extension cable instead, a this-violates-the-usb-c-spec configuration which is only made by the very best sixletter brands.

it comes down to semantics- no usb-c dock is a true 'dock', they are dongles that return all of the necessary and useful legacy IO to over-slimmed laptops

since people will accept them, manufacturers see no value in building laptop cradles with USB-C connectors in the exact right place to properly 'dock' into specific laptops (which would be Cool, but still look a little weird, see the Steam Deck dock)

USB-C socking stations are the dirt fucking worst and I’ll fight anyone who disagrees. We’re currently going through the process of getting rid of 400+ Dell TB16 thunderbolt docks where I work because they’re horribly made, buggy pieces of shit with connectors that literally crumble to plastic dust in your hands, only to find the WD22TB4’s we are replacing them with have flaky ethernet ports!

Not to be some kind of RETVRN asshole, but why we ever stopped making the e-Docks where you drop the laptop down on a big chonky connector and pushed a physical eject button to disconnect the laptop is beyond me. Those never broke ever and didn’t require a fukken 240w power brick besides.

USB-C is my least favorite kind of port, where one port can have wildly different capabilities and speeds yet look identical, and so can the cables.

Hell, at least USB 3.0 ports were usually blue internally to differentiate from 2.0 until recently. And the connector didn't feel like it would break off in a stiff breeze. And I can at least mostly reliably buy 3.0 cables that work after much pain figuring out how and have never managed to get a C cable that runs at a decent speed. but it's symmetrical wooo ugh