Wait bayonetta is in the opposite category. It's like, still regularly brought up as an example of art being wildly horny without being objectifying? Not sure where you got the impression that it's commonly lumped in with XC2
I think "horny vs objectifying" is the simplest way to break it down, really.
- People broadly enjoy horny art. It's a nearly universal human connection. Yeah, some people operate on a "horny = bad" principle, but that's generally the purview of Weird Christians and/or Loud Teens, and not really something you'll hear from folks doing serious writing about media
- Many (arguably Most) people are bothered by art that objectifies women. It excludes/alienates a huge chunk of viewers, and replicates/reinforces a lot of really shitty stuff that goes on in the real world. Critics will usually call this out (or at least, TRY to, at risk of awakening the Weird Reactionary contingent)
honestly I don't even think I have a unique Take here I'm just basically writing an explanation of how media criticism works, but here goes lol
I feel like, almost every time people get mad at critics about this stuff, it's because they're missing the fact that Horny and Objectifying are two different things. Partially overlapping venn circles:
- Horny, Objectifying (xenoblade 2, metal gear 5)
- Horny, Not Objectifying (baldurs gate 3, bayonetta)
- Not Horny, Objectifying (final fantasy 16, bizarrely one of the most outright misogynistic games I've ever played)
Obviously, the boundaries can be fuzzy. Good artists know what they're doing, and can dance around the thresholds because they understand that thresholds are where all the really interesting shit happens.1 But like, most Gamer Discourse just fundamentally isn't operating on that level.
tl;dr:
"Critics like baldurs gate but didn't like xc2" isn't actually a contradiction; they're both horny games but "being horny" wasn't the thing critics criticized about xc2
also:
You can like games that have problems! Art is complicated! It's a conversation with your own brain! No critic is saying "you're a bad person if you enjoyed this Problematic Game"; that's just a lie conservatives made up to recruit redditors. Hell, nearly every serious criticism leveled against xenoblade 2 is completely valid and correct, AND ALSO it's one of my all-time favorite games lol2
if for some reason somebody actually wants my Xenoblade Chronicles 2 Take send a separate ask because that would be a whole-ass Blog Post lmao
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"does Nier Automata objectify women", thread locked after 12,239 pages of debate, etc
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weirdly this is one of the only useful lessons I got out of calvinist christianity lol. "Food sacrificed to idols" and all that: There is no morally perfect art; you either spend your life terrified of accidentally looking at a Sin, or grow the fuck up and recognize that you're always gonna have a complex and interesting relationship with the world around you because PEOPLE are complex and interesting
