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SLIMEPATTERN
@SLIMEPATTERN

i've been playing CRINGE! by mark klem and some other 1994 doom wads over the past few years. and it's become very clear to me over the past few years that the FPS genre (and maybe games as a whole im just woefully underread so i dont rly wanna comment) around 96ish and before just had a radically different set of values about what was good or bad. like the idea of what fits within the modern accepted overton window of game design, whether that's in fan communities or in mainstream design. i also think about the stuff in Spear of Destiny, Marathon, Memento Mori, System Shock (1994), or Serenity/Eternity/Infinity. for example, it's very clear to me that the authors just simply did not think it was an inherent Goodness to have the game be beatable always.

and i don't mean in some skill level testing type of way, even though that is one form of it. memento mori and spear both throw you into situations where your life or death is down to the will of the RNG several times, and i don't think it's an accident. CRINGE! subjects you to required secret after required secret and so forth. marathon's Colony Ship For Sale's obtuse puzzle progression is notorious but it's not some aberration, the game has a few other parts like that. system shock lets you softlock yourself in all sorts of ways, is notorious for its hitscanners, and also presents you with a button that lets you laser the earth to death and game over, if you so choose.

a lot of people like to talk the talk about how game design hasn't progressed linearly through time. like i hope i dont need to reiterate that "oh they just didn't know what they were doing back then" is nonsense? because it is absolutely nonsense. but despite wider acceptance that that's nonsense, there's still this lack of willingness to actually contend with this stuff. to actually gaze upon being trapped in a tight corridor with a baron and only a shotgun and the only thing that can save you is mostly just the luck of how much it decides to attack, and how high it rolls on its damage rolls, despite the level giving you 200/200 health/armor right before.

it's an old cliche in games discourse to say that snakes and ladders isn't "actually a game". yet it's one of the most successful of all time, in a way that makes Call of Duty seem as obscure as, say, Monstrum for the amiga. i'm not sure that "successful" is worth praising, but it appears notable. i'm not sure i can say anything new, anything worth saying, about snakes and ladders.

but there's something to be said for the emotional and storytelling impact of the idea that BJ Blazkowicz, protagonist of Spear of Destiny, might just fucking die. because he's in World War 2. it's cartoon ass world war 2, but still. it's world war 2, you just fucking die there. there's something, completely bizarre about the year-2023 attitude of an fps game compared to that. the modern attitude where you could make it through world war 2 or citadel station or whatever the hell is going on in CRINGE! without relying a lot on luck, no matter how badass you are.

i think about also just. how much we narrow the emotional palette that we have available to us as artists.

i feel like a lot of times if i try to bring up that there's other ways of making or perceiving art, i get this kind of reaction like i'm being a weird snob. and i don't really have an actual defense other than to say: idk it's weird to call me a snob for me saying "hey this can be good too".

there's elements of this kind of design in the more popular FPSes of that previous era like Quake, Duke3D, Doom, and Wolf3D as well. for example the early parts of Wolf3D episode 2. but i think like, familiarity and just how well-tread they are in the general discussion has maybe made me not really evaluate this in those cases. but i bring it up to point out that it wasn't exactly an unpopular thing. it, to me, demonstrates that this has been a shift in the allowed "overton window" of games.

the obvious implication is also that there's stuff that could be a valid "overton window" fitting completely different types of games.

and that we haven't really properly come to terms with any of that culturally. like for example we get a lot of retro-styled shooters and of course the neverending parade of doom wads, but none of them are willing to go full 1994 in terms of what they value. and to a degree it would be impossible anyway. we are who we are and we can't go home again (and other cliches). but there's a lack of conscious awareness and acceptance about any of this too.

i dont know if i have an overarching point here, it's just, been on my mind, for quite some time

now playing: Abul Mogard - Slate-coloured Storm


vectorpoem
@vectorpoem

The manuals for the early LucasArts (then Lucasfilm Games) adventure games had this short section titled Our Game Design Philosophy towards the back. It was basically a direct response to the unstated design philosophy of competitor Sierra's adventure games, which were notorious for cheap shots and potholes: killing the player, silent / unrecoverable failure states, deliberately arbitrary puzzles, "save early and often", etc.

I remember reading this as a kid. It was almost certainly the first time I'd ever thought about the concept of a "game design philosophy".

They were too polite to state it plainly but I think partly what the Lucasfilm designers were responding to was a lack of care for craft on the part of their peers at Sierra. And I don't think they were wrong - Sierra built their whole 80s empire in a kind of "winging it" mode, and they knew that their weird sloppy dead-end-riddled designs ultimately just extended play time and sold more strategy guides (I forget if they had one of those 1-900 phone hint lines too). And so in that context the Lucasfilm philosophy felt genuinely progressive, like the higher harder road that produced better experiences - ones that hold up better historically, though that gets into the "2023's game design Overton Window is omnipresent and inescapable" point OP is making.

And much like Doom's violence went from being a shocking transgressive novelty in the early 90s to totally normalized and boring by the early 00s, I think the design values of never letting players get stuck in an unwinnable state, never killing them unexpectedly, not leaning hard on savegames as a safety net - and more generally making sure that the game is a thing you can definitely complete if you stick with it - in time became the norm, and eventually became today's sometimes oppressively narrow definition of "good game design", in which designers carefully sand down every possible rough edge for fear of getting yelled at by gamers, who have now come to expect total frictionlessness, total conformity. The revolutionary idealism of "Our Design Philosophy" (1988) has been fully digested into capitalist cultural production, and most of the creators toiling within it have neither the tools nor consciousness (in the political sense) to think about ways they might break its tenets for interesting artistic effect.

Of course, the Souls games made such an impression on everyone that it's once again acceptable to kill the player and come at them sideways, provided you act like you know what you're doing as a designer (ie meet the high standard for "tight combat", clear interesting and communicative level design, etc). And maybe something like Outer Wilds reminded everyone that the equivalent in puzzle design, ie Letting Players Wonder About Something For A Minute and not handing them everything on a platter, was also acceptable.

Game design is way too big and dispersed a field nowadays for there to feel like there's as much of a coherent Conversation going between practitioners as there was in the 80s and 90s. But if there's a lesson here I think it's that it's good to be one of the creators with a distinctive, confident enough authorial voice that you're contributing to that conversation, or perhaps exploring its boundaries, rather than simply timidly echoing it.


eniko
@eniko

I've given a lot of thought to this topic, though not in terms of FPS or adventure games, but in regards to RPGs. Nowadays when you boot up a western RPG and you go through your inventory it's some sleek gamepad ready thing where you just zip through a list of things in your possession in linear order. Same when you look at containers. But it didn't use to be that way.

In Ultima 7, 8, and Online when you opened up an inventory it had a skeuomorphic design to represent the container, a drawer for a chest of drawers, a backpack for a backpack, a coffin for a corpse, and the items were just... scattered in there. And you had to drag them around with the mouse to uncover things. It was kind of a pain in the ass trying to find anything in your inventory, but it was an immersive pain in the ass. It also let them do things like hide keys to locked doors in drawers by putting them under a pile of blankets. You know, like people do. In Skyrim you'd open the right container and it'd be there, in the list, plain as day, "Basement Key" or whatever.

I remember the early days of playing Ultima Online too. It had a very simple interface, where most actions were boiled to "use item (double click) -> target thing (single click) -> perform action." And yeah, it could be cumbersome, but it was intuitive and also, I feel, immersive.

Here you were in a world where there's no friends list, no private chat support, no global chat even. You don't have fast travel unless you're a skilled mage. You're wandering through the forest. You need to cut wood. You open your pack, and use your axe on a tree, your lil guy does a lil choppy choppy animation, and you get some wood. In between chopping wood you forage for magical reagents which dot the forest floor. It becomes dark, and you want to make a fire. You open your pack and take out your knife, and use it on some plants to get kindling. You plop down your bedroll, and ignite the kindling to make a camp, and you sleep.

That kind of gameplay contained an absolutely incredible amount of friction, but it's also the most immersed I've felt in a virtual world literally ever. But every time I think about making a game for me, a world in which I could immerse myself like that, I think about how you can't do that anymore. That it'd literally be a game just for me, because nobody else would ever tolerate it.

And that's not even getting into the problems with making a game where you have to shove things around your inventory with the mouse and (double) click on everything constantly to do anything. It's an RSI nightmare!

I still wanna make something like this. But I probably never will.


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in reply to @SLIMEPATTERN's post:

you're right that we can't fully go back to that sensibility of game design - however it does give me pause for thought on different ways i could design the FPS projects i'm tinkering with. maybe it doesn't always have to be "fun".

i remember playing some of those doom wads when they were new! memento mori and particularly mm2 left a strong impact on me, even if they don't terribly stand up well as 'good' level design. lots of experimentation, and people coming up with things as they went. while i know this is a more general discussion on the merits of valid game design, i do think a lot of modern pwads follow a sort of difficulty design that is accepted as fair by the community, which can be really hard but are not quite as tied to luck so much as knowledge.

one thing i keep coming back to in my theory of design is that 'game over' as a concept doesn't make any sense to me, ubiquitous as it is. the only time the game is truly over when the player stops playing, not when any particular timeline of the game ceases. people dust themselves off and get back to it all the time.

we need to not be afraid of understanding and caring about the importance of that agency on the part of the player.

in reply to @vectorpoem's post:

I think the kind of fundamental shift here is that we don't now consider "just start from scratch" an acceptable next step in a game. But of course the 80s and 90s were chock full of "just start from scratch" experiences, in arcades and on early consoles. 3 lives then game over was normal. Well if it's ok to sometimes just make your player reset, of course all manner of unfairness is on the table, because the consequence of it isn't really a consequence at all.

p.s. Dark Souls' least-imitated but most-important design paradigm is that if you're going to kill the player with a cheap shot, it should be funny. Greatest mimic in videogame history fite me.

DS3 has you enter a room with a painting of Gwynevere - she of 'amazing chest ahead' from the original game - in all her buxom glory. If you approach it carelessly, a dark knight will shoot you from a balcony behind you. The knight is (afaik) specially programmed only to fire if you approach the painting. Fantastic game.

I wonder how much of "just start from scratch" not being considered acceptable anymore is how much longer a lot of games have gotten compared to the 80s/90s and their arcade siblings. Something like Skyrim with permadeath/the ability to more or less easily softlock yourself could easily lose a player dozens of hours of progress.

Few things annoy me as much as the phrase "game mechanic? in current year?!". As if game design was the art of cutting off and filing down until the perfect game to end all games emerged.

Maybe a mechanic is a bad fit for most games, but that doesn't mean the mechanic itself is bad.

in reply to @eniko's post:

Coming back to this to reread, it's really such a great description of games that have hooked me the most, ones that on their face have so much friction and tedium, but you're so bought in to what it has to show you you'll do anything it asks of you and you wind up finding the friction core to the emotional response you got out of it.