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child of the 80s

 


 

i escaped a cult.
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techokami
@techokami

I've always had an idea for creating a homebrew microcomputer kit with the intent to help teach children about how computers work at a much deeper level than, say, the Raspberry Pi. Kids could get the kit, sit down with soldering equipment (and parental guidance), and assemble the computer from parts, learning about how the computer works as they go along. The end result would be a solid understanding of the computer, the satisfaction of having something they made themselves, and have a computer that can do useful things while continuing to teach software and hardware concepts.

And good grief is the choice for microprocessors kinda shitty!

So now I'm going to explain my wish list for an ideal processor and explain the problems with the majority of the current market.



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in reply to @techokami's post:

Yes this this this THIS! The 68000 ISA is perfect for education! It's simple to learn but powerful to use. But NXP killed it in favor of ARM.

Technically it is still in production, because Rochester Electronics obtained all the rights and masks to make new ones, but they cranked the price by more than double and require large minimum orders, so a single 68SEC000 costs US$300 and you have 19 extras. Also, it's the QFP version rather than the DIP version, so it's harder to solder.

Stupid monkey's paw...

i guess theres some scope to buy in bulk and resell individually for $15 but thats not nearly as worth it for a qfp. but it does look like its a 64 pin package, which is *maybe* adaptable to a pcb the size of the original chip? its a pretty big chip, and 64 pins puts it on par with something like the s-smp in terms of size

hot take but i think “has a good ISA” is a dubious thing to say about the 6502, and I think the 68HC11 is a much better version of the basic architecture but they only ever made that as a microcontroller

Eeeehhhhhhhh, probably more of a lukewarm take. Back in The Day, there was a holy war between the "sixers" and the "eighters"; that is, the Motorola/MOS way versus the Intel/Zilog way. If you look up old magazines, newsletters, and the like, you'll find people on both sides claiming the other party's ISAs are crap. And yeah, the 68HC11 was a better take on the 6800, though HARVARD!!!!!!!!!

Probably not it, but according to one of the official MIPS download pages there was a file named MIPS+Open+ISA/MIPS_Open_R6_Arch_V1.0.zip
https://web.archive.org/web/20221126093654/https://mips.com/resources/download/
edit: most likely that was it as it matches structure of MIPSOpen website and description on the ISA 1.0 page outright says Baseline 32 and 64-bit MIPS Instruction Set Architecture (ISA), Release 6 https://web.archive.org/web/20190921181027/https://www.mipsopen.com/resources/download/
https://web.archive.org/web/20190330164959/https://www.mipsopen.com/downloads/mips-open-isa-v1-0/

There might be a copy on Chinese Software Developer Network, but looks like it requires registering and paying either directly to the platform, or paying a third-party who'll download the file for you, lol.
https://download.csdn.net/download/bisheng250/11547170

Considering that judging by the first link they used to officially distribute the ISA docs after the program ended and on better conditions (no registration and agreeing to their license) for quite some time, I wonder if just contacting the company through the contact form and asking directly might work?

Unfortunately, MIPS refuses to let anyone else have the materials. I didn't mention it, but they actually sued Loongson over the continued production of MIPS-compatible CPUs, but thankfully lost the case. However, Loongson's take is a hybrid of MIPS and RISC-V and is also very much overkill for the goals I have outlined.

Also, very nice to see that you actually found mirrors of the files! Shame that the only known mirrors are literally paywalled. And they actually prevented the Wayback Machine from archiving the files, the dicks :(

Now the problem is the availability of that specific FPGA. The manufacturer is more likely to kill it off without a replacement, bringing us back to the same problem. Seriously, I was looking at replicating a project someone did that used an FPGA to emulate the mapper chips on Game Boy carts to create a flash/repro cart, but the FPGA that was used was discontinued by the manufacturer and they had no drop-in replacement, which meant that if I were to revive this project I would need to find a suitable replacement FPGA, rewrite all the verilog to work with the new FPGA, and then have to make a cart PCB from scratch because the whole gimmick was that the FPGA was able to fit in the same footprint as the actual mapper chip on the real PCB, but everything else on the market wouldn't be able to properly fit.

But a bigger, more real problem is actually cost. FPGAs aren't cheap! I've seen some FPGAs on modules that fit in DIP sockets, and they cost far more than the most expensive chips mentioned in my post. However, such a module would be a good solution to the "make it human solderable" issue, in that even a BGA part could be put onto a daughterboard that the end user puts into a DIP socket.

well, if you want to make a PC compatible, this seems like the chip for you!

we ended up looking at this more at an IRC channel, and apparently it has neither real mode (what you'd want for DOS) or paging (what you'd want for … essentially anything that is not DOS), but it does have fully featured 32-bit segmentation, which is the weird unloved bit of 32-bit x86 that essentially everyone just configures to give them flat 4 gig address space and subsequently ignores

From what I was able to find, all RISC-V parts that aren't Harvard-style microcontrollers are BGA parts, which fails the "human solderable" requirement. Furthermore, they're all very complicated SoC designs, and the vibe I've been getting is that you're not supposed to write any bare metal code, so for the intended use case it's not really worth it. I really need to write a followup to this chost.