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idadeerz
@idadeerz

all i'm asking for is that people tag their posts or provide alt text or anything so that their posts are still accessible to me. this isn't hard.

tag your posts as #yingletspeak or #typing quirk, or provide alt text. cohost is not accessible for me when none of my friends bother to do this.


idadeerz
@idadeerz

i got blocked by more users than that. for asking people to tag their posts.

is cohost really safe for disabled people if we can't even point out an accessibility issue in peace? i've been told my accessibility issue isn't real, forced to explain my disabilities in detail to justify myself, given a million workarounds ranging from "just use a translator" to "pretend it's a different language" (what.) that don't actually solve the accessibility issue, and i've literally been accused of cyberbullying yinglets as though i am speciesist. all of this just because i asked people to tag their posts. which i don't even think is a great solution! but it works!

i'm canceling my cohost subscription until staff addresses this; i know, it's only just a drop in the bucket, but i don't want to support a platform that is actively causing me harm by dogpiling me over pointing out an accessibility issue. i reported this to the staff, but i was told they aren't going to require these posts to be tagged, they can't help with getting the whole userbase to tag things, and i should just try to solve it on an individual basis. well, as you can see, i've tried! and it just results in everyone being needlessly hostile to me as a disabled person. i'm not paying money for a platform that allosw that to happen to me. i'm not paying money for something that does not work for me. i will most likely continue using cohost as it's still better than any other platforms, but i do not feel welcome here anymore. not until things drastically change.

therianism should not give anyone a free pass to start causing accessibility issues for others. this should not be a hot take. yingletspeak is an accessibility issue. just because it gives species euphoria doesn't make it any less of an issue. i'm literally a therian myself; i'm not bullying anyone, i think yinglets are fine, but i also want this site to be easy to access for me and everyone else! this is not speciesist to say. you guys are just looking for reasons to continue being ableist without having to consider other people's perspectives, and using a separate marginalisation to justify your behavior. that's not right at all.

the fact that the community on this site finds it more acceptable to pretend our disability issues aren't real and we shouldn't complain, block users so they can continue causing accessibility issues without us, suggest using a plugin that isn't supported everywhere, pretend it's an entirely different language even though it's just English on a majority English-speaking site — ALL OF THIS in favor of actually addressing the issue and accomodating for the disabled users on here — that is absolutely disgusting.

i had hopes that cohost was filled with users from other platforms where they'd been mistreated before, and that we all had the same ideals of making sure we didn't allow the same dynamics in our community here. i'm starting to realize it's not the case. twitter may have its main character of the day, but cohost has its main character of the month; it's just more sporadic here. everyone here is still just as greedy when it comes to piling onto other users over disagreements in beliefs; it's just that on twitter it's 14 year old kids, and on cohost it's all adults who are entirely sincere and on the same side as me, making it much more frustrating to deal with. i can block the 14 year olds. but it is heart-wrenching to see people engaging in this behavior towards me who i truly respected before. and that's different. that's not something i have any tolerance for like on twitter.

i'll debunk more people's bad-faith arguments below the read more as i did with the last post; but just realize for a moment that the fact that i have to put effort into doing that ON COHOST OF ALL PLACES is nothing short of a failure. a failure of this platform to accomodate disabled people and not force them to constantly justify their needs instead of just goddamn listening and assuming sincerity.


this is not an accessibility issue. we have been over this on the internet many times before

like, i don't know what to tell you. i am directly stating that it is a disability issue, but i just get told that apparently it's not, apparently some people on the internet some time in the past had a discussion about typing quirks and disabilities, and they decided it's just not a problem? so i don't get to complain? wow, thanks random internet person, you just said it's not an accessibility issue! i didn't see it that way before! damn! i'm totally cured now!

just because i am not dyslexic doesn't mean it's not an accessibility issue for me!! and there ARE dyslexic people for who it is an issue, so why not listen to them? am i not allowed to comment if i don't have any specific disabilities that are canonically affected by this? or if my disabilities aren't as debilitating as theirs? why are you gatekeeping disability?

you were being incredibly rude!

but see, i asked nicely before. i tried asking much more politely if people could take my accessibility into account, and even that was met with hostility here and there, and nothing changed. i am only being rude because i guess that's the only way to really start a discussion on here, which is a VERY bad sign if you'd ask me. this should not take this much effort and i do not respect being tone policed by people who have only seen me being angry without seeing what came before it.

just mute people!

i'd love to mute yingletspeak! if only there was, like, y'know... a tag... that people would add to their posts... so i could mute the tag...... that'd be great............... really great...........................................

why do i have to mute entire users? i don't want to do that... like i said, some of them are friends, some of them post useful things that i would like to view that aren't yingletposts. why do you want me to mute users but you don't want to simply tag your posts? is it really that much effort? is it invalidating your species somehow? tell me, please, why is it so hard to add a single tag to a post... it requires some typing, and then after you've used it once it requires a single mouse click. is that so hard?

you all spent more energy discussing why i should look into different solutions than you would have just tagging your goddang posts...

you can install a typing quirk translator plugin into your browser!

no i can't! that's not available on all browsers. several people already reported this not being a thing for Safari. and then what, do you think accessibility should only be granted to those who are tech-savvy enough to install userscripts or something? really? now that is fucking ableist.

but the problem also lies in the fact that the accessibility issue itself still persists! i'm already conceding a lot by just asking people to tag their posts; i think providing translated alt text should be the go-to solution. why do disabled people have to install a translator? why can't the OP translate their post back and wrap it in a details tag, and not place the burden on the disabled person to do this for them? why do you want disabled people to do all the work? oh, you don't agree with that statement? well consider that that's the only logical outcome before you say it then.

besides, typing quirk posts could absolutely be an issue for screen readers and other machines and programs that require properly typed English in order to provide accessibility features. i'm going to assume that a translator would fix this. i also do not use any of these tools, so i think someone else who does should pop in the comments to share their perspective on it.

i agree that people should at least tag this stuff, but why can't you just ask your yinglet friends only?

because... here's the thing... this does not solve the issue at all. my friends could tag their posts with #yingletspeak. their yinglet friends who they share posts from might not do that. now there's still inaccessible posts on my timeline! problem... not solved at all, actually!

but then what about all the other disabled people who this affects? do they all have to ask their friends, too? why do disabled people have to put in the effort here? are we not allowed to just expect the people causing the issue on purpose to just take us into account?

just pretend yingletspeak is a different language!

this is literally one of the worst arguments i've ever been presented with. yingletspeak is not a different language. comparing it to actual non-English languages sounds like a joke to me.

yingletspeak at best is an accent. it is literally just English. i wanna say that again. it is LITERALLY just English. it's English with letters swapped around. why do you want me, a disabled person, to go through the effort of pretending it's a different language and just skipping these posts (which sometimes are just my friends posting about their lives or sharing informative content that i DON'T want to miss!), but you don't want to put in any effort yourself?

do you think bilingual people should also tag their language so people can filter them out?

yes! yes, actually! this argument is being presented as if asking this of bilingual people is somehow insane or disrespectful of their languages. but like... this is just normal tagging practice! i'm bilingual myself; if i post in Dutch, i tag it as Dutch. mostly so that it gets archived and other people reading the tag can find it easily. but if you wanna filter it out? be my guest! i wouldn't be upset.

do you know why YouTube's video uploader has a setting for your video's language? it's so that it gets recommended to the right audience. cohost does not have an algorithm, so you have to create it yourself by filtering out posts. if i set a video to Dutch, it won't appear on French YouTube. this is a completely normal feature other websites have!!! if i AM supposed to treat yingletspeak as a separate language, which is already insane because it isn't one, then i DO think even more that it should be tagged!!!!!

this argument is so bad that it actually works in my favor.


i'm extremely tired. i am tired of having to explain myself over and over again. i am tired of being told i should just block people, people who i care about, so that those people can freely continue causing issues on this platform. i'm tired of being forced to go in excruciating detail about all of this just in order to be believed that this is actually a real, valid issue. this is not how i expected anyone here to behave. maybe i should have after the whole dark theme discussion. i'm gonna put alt text on all my images now; i never considered it to be that much of an issue, but if disabled people have to go through this much nightmare hell just to address their issues i do not want to contribute to making it harder for them in the future ever again.

cohost has a culture problem. you have to let the dominant culture do what it wants to do, even if what it wants to do is perpetuating ableism against other users. if you get in the way of their behavior, they will treat you like shit. this is far from the first time users have been singled out and tossed aside for addressing deep issues they have with behavior on the platform. i just hope everyone can learn to do fucking better than this.

oh, and once again:

tag your goddamn posts with #yingletspeak or #typing quirk, god dammit :)


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in reply to @idadeerz's post:

like yeah yingletspeak or homestuck typing quirks aren't completely impossible to read, but i've already detailed that in my specific case it takes my brain so much extra effort to swap the z's for t's even if i already know what to swap them to. i'm not dyslexic but i still find it very hard to process those posts and i would rather not go through that when it's avoidable. for some people it's much worse than that too.

how is it not an accessibility problem? like... i'm not dyslexic, but i have autism + adhd and that results in the issue i mentioned regarding processing the typing quirk stuff. it is a complete mental slog to read. just because i can in theory read it if i put in extra effort doesn't make it accessible, it's difficult for me.

i'm sure people with visual impairment could use a screen and read text on it if they tried, but it's not accessible, which is why high contrast modes exist. i'm sure people with auditory processing issues (like i sometimes get because of my autism) could follow a conversation in a crowded place if they tried, but it's not accessible, which is why it's preferable to have spaces with good acoustics so that this doesn't get in the way. et cetera.

there's people who have much bigger disability issues with these posts than i do and if you think my accessibility issue doesn't count, that's fine i guess, but that doesn't mean i can't stick up for those who do have a much harder time with it.

The extra effort I wasn’t planning on extending while casually browsing social media (I often don’t realize a post is in yinglet for several words and then my OCD forces me to finish the post) has triggered multiple migraines for me. In the last month. It is ABSOLUTELY an accessibility problem, especially since YOU can choose to stop typing in yinglet but I cannot choose to make my brain work better and not be so prone to giving me migraines.

yingletspeak was a fun quirk for a while until i was told to sidestep it with an addon i'd never heard of. im not disabled in this area, it's just irritating to read, but getting that answer raised my eyebrows a bit lmao, i imagine a dyslexic person would have a nightmare scrolling through it all and placing the fix on their end's a bit uncaring.

we already do alt-text for images, why randomly stop here?

Here's the thing. If people are making informative posts they want others to see and engage with (like tutorials or info lists or any number of other things), those should be legibile and accessible for everyone, absolutely.

But someone's goofy personal posts, stream of consciousness, or inside jokes among friends aren't content that needs to be accessible to everyone. Sometimes a post or a person isn't for you, and that's okay! Yeah, it may suck if some of your friends are yinglets and you can't read their posts, but think of it this way:

If one of your friends was bilingual and posted in, say, German or French or Portuguese or [some other language you do not speak], would you expect them to tag those posts with #German every time so people who don't speak German don't have to see them lest they feel left out? They could use Google translate to get a rough idea of what the German post says, but that puts the burden on them to decipher the posts.

i feel like you're describing the issue with informative posts as a hypothetical, but some of the accounts i follow have absolutely been doing that. there's some yinglets who have switched to using yingletspeak outside of just yinglet shitposting. i get that the shitposting is just for fun, but that's not really the main issue here. there is informative content which is being made less accessible through it and which is also not being tagged accordingly.

also, i'm bilingual myself! i don't really post in dutch very often, but if i do, i do in fact always tag it; that's not out of accessibility, more just as a general tagging principle, because i would like to see other posts in the language get archived somewhere so everyone looking for dutch chosts/chosters can find them easily. i wouldn't really mind it if someone muted it if they don't speak the language. there's also #toki pona which... oh man, the first thing in there is a 107-post chain of someone posting words in the language. that's an issue entirely in its own right. but yeah, you get the idea here. that is not a language i or many people speak, but i think i've seen people using it before and they do tend to use tags like those.

i'm not sure if yingletspeak is comparable though, as it is content that is intended for english speakers. it's basically just a different version of english. bilingual posts aren't intended to be read by me in the first place. yingletspeak is, but it is intentionally more difficult to do so.

I guess what I'm getting at is, if you pretend the yinglets are speaking in another language, one you cannot read easily, maybe it will help lessen the frustration a little bit.

"Oh, I can't read this because it's in Yinglish, I'll just scroll past it."

It takes me several words of regular English to realize it’s yingletspeak, and then my OCD (which I don’t have the spoons to fight on something this small) makes me finish the post. And the effort to parse keeps giving me migraines. Why is asking for it to be tagged so I can filter it from my feed entirely such a big ask?

And there's also the broader fact that the way cohost works is if you're seeing so many untagged yinglet posts it means you follow a lot of people who do the yinglet typing quirk. I think this should be a discussion you have with your friends rather than the site as a whole.

Or I follow someone who reblogs yinglet posts no problem?? “Oh you just follow the wrong people dummy” some of my mutuals suddenly became infrequent yinglsetspeakers out of nowhere a month ago, am I supposed to silence their whole page because they might give me a migraine once a week? Why can’t they just tag???

I don't understand why you're so resistant to the idea of using a text swap plugin. Like, it seems like an ideal solution, to me. You'd get to read all the posts without problems, and all your friends would still get to feel nice by communicating in the way that's natural to them.

And like, I understand that you might be thinking "but I shouldn't have to", and sure, I guess. But like, I don't think it's fair for you to be upset about the way others speak? Especially when it's tied to their identity like that

it works!!!!!! thank u actually for the tip on a good Uscript extension, maybe i will look around for additional stuff like redirect reddit to old.reddit and breezewiki.

sad to report that safari extensions don't work on a PWA unless i'm missing something. maybe i'll try re-creating the shortcut now that the extension is applied.

thanks again Misty @dog !

i mean, yeah it's some of my yinglet friends/mutuals. but it's also other yinglet posts that they share from people who i don't know. and it's also such posts being shared by non-yinglets i follow. and even if my mutuals started tagging stuff, that fixes the accessibility issue for me but not the other users who struggle with this. i'd rather just ask everyone involved so there could be a more general solution.

I never thought of this particular intersection between typing quirks and accessibility issues before, thanks for pointing it out! I will try to be more aware of potential typing quirks in the posts i share and tag them accordingly, just in case some of my followers could benefit from it

i mean... see the other comment i left about that. i'm bilingual and i always tag stuff like that out of accessibility and archiving stuff in the language in question! forgot to mention it in the other comment but most websites have language features where you can filter out content in languages you don't speak; that's not even that uncommon.

however i still think this is different because yingletspeak is intended for English-speaking audiences already, it's just bastardized English. i don't think it makes sense to compare it to a foreign language, it's an intentionally difficult to read form of English.

Its so bizarre seeing people having a problem with tagging their fucking posts on cohost. ESPECIALLY as an accessibility thing. It only makes sense as ablest "how dare you tell me to accommodate you" behavior. Weirder still I've yet to see yingletposting without going out and looking for it, so the acting like they don't need to accommodate anyone else is so weird given that they're just not a large community by any means. "Put up or shut up" as a community attitude towards disability, in a community that small, is so strange to see. I really wonder why this flared up here specifically, yknow?

in reply to @idadeerz's post:

yeah, exactly!! everyone here is expected to cw/tw content and there's the 18+ feature too. yingletspeak obviously isn't a trigger, but it's still something that could be tagged and muted that way. i thought cohost was primarily designed around being able to filter out content because tumblr sucked at it so much?? i've never used tumblr so i'm not sure, but i thought the whole point was just tagging. so then i really don't know why this is so hard.

so this is not my fight in a way, since i’m fortunate enough to not have any trouble reading yingletspeak, but i just wanna say thanks for speaking up about it, throughout the whole spectrum of tone you’ve had to use. what you’ve been asking for has been entirely reasonable, the bare minimum even (compared to say providing alt text), and it’s baffling that so many people have been so hostile to your accessibility request to the point of treating you like a bigot or blocking you

i've been in internet communities with a lot of people with learning disabilities for as long as i can remember so i've known a lot of dyslexic people and typing quirks can give dyslexic people HELL. i can't even count on two hands and my feet how many times i've seen a dyslexic person go "can you guys please please tag your typing quirks please" and everyone lose their minds as if they've just asked them to sever a limb.
not surprised to be seeing it but definitely surprised to be seeing it here, where the userbase is mostly adults. can't possibly be that hard to add one tag. really sorry you're having to go through this nonsense.

So like, I agree yinglets should tag their posts, but that's essentially socially engineering a solution. New site users aren't going to be aware that tagging a post with a silly quirk is mandatory cohost meta.

On the flip side, what is staff supposed to do here? Why cancel a subscription? Is a post missing a tag really worthy of staff action?

I'm just confused about the objective here. Tagging posts seems like the perfect solution but it's impossible to communicate that is necessary to every user. I also don't believe Yinglish is worthy of staff action. The only real way to solve this issue in all cases is a text swap plugin because it can identify posts containing the quirk and swap them automatically.

I am sorry about all the mean spirited replies, and I am sorry this has been an issue. I would never want people to suffer in a welcoming place like cohost obviously. <3

i canceled my subscription because i think staff has the authority to do something about both the tag situation and me getting dogpiled, but i don't think change would happen through the conventional methods for it.

there's no guidelines against not tagging posts. staff are very hands-off with what people post, and i do appreciate that! i guess forcing people to tag stuff sets a precedent; what other tags could they start enforcing? i get that this is not an option. i also get that reporting untagged yingletspeak is therefore not an option.

i am also not sure how i would possibly go about addressing all the dogpiling to them. subtweeting someone isn't a rule break. people adding onto the discussion directly or just vaguely hinting at me, as rude as they might be, is not a rule break. an individual user writing a post about "The Discourse" might not think they're doing much on their own, they're just sharing their thoughts, but right now my timeline is a minefield of random mutuals sharing those posts and contributing to it; i've lost count of how many people i trusted i saw sharing stuff that was very clearly targeted at me.

cohost imho has some deep rooted issues with the site's culture, when a simple request for tagging posts can somehow spiral into constant hostility on my timeline from people i thought were better than that. i'm not gonna pay money for a platform that boasts about how friendly it is to disabled people and how the culture is different from like twitter and tumblr or whatever, where the users THEMSELVES are boasting about it constantly, but then they turn around and treat people like this. it has been extremely awful for me.

i would like the staff to at least make a post addressing this stuff and saying "hey, don't do that, be normal, maybe tag your posts". i as Just One Guy™ don't have the authority to tell people to be fucking normal. i would hope that the cohost staff does, and they would use it responsibly to stop yet another disabled transfem from being run off their disabled and transfem-friendly website.