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KeithJCarberry
@KeithJCarberry

the weird thing about Clone Wars is that it tries to give fans and critics what they wanted (but didnt get) out of the prequel trilogy, which is watching Jedi and Hero Anakin before his fall, struggling with his feelings of ambition and pride. but the confusing thing about this is that Anakin actually falls somewhere between phantom menace and AotC. we never see it. this is what the conversation at the start of AotC is meant to show: prideful, wrathful Anakin literally idolizing this girl he barely knows (intentionally Oedipal shit from GL here because of the mom stuff, not for the last time) By the time he's General Skywalker, he'd already committed mass murder.

it's the sort of canonization of the idea that anakin STARTS his fall with mass murder, struggles throughout the clone war, and then finally falls in Revenge of the Sith, which i believe is a pivot based on the extremely wide expectation/misunderstanding that the prequels were meant to show you how cool and powerful anakin was before his fall when actually its a movie about how he was already a space fascist and a whiny pissy creep who helped his evil foster dad swallow up the galaxy because the jedi get off on being withholding and he couldnt deal


amtebbel
@amtebbel

Now I haven’t watched any Clone Wars media but are you seriously telling me no one ever addresses that Anakin killed all those Tusken Raiders? Textually or metatextually? I’m floored.


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in reply to @KeithJCarberry's post:

I think there's a distinction to be drawn between a Jedi being a bad person and a Jedi being capital F Fallen. A Jedi's Fall (or redemption) is portrayed as a conscious choice, an act to cement it, and takes place in a specific moment. Jedi can and do have bad vibes, work to buttress a government that enslaves people, and only pay lip service to their code without getting yellow eyes. Anyone who says "cool I'm a general now" is fucked up, imo.

Anakin's descent is the template for lots of other stories where a Jedi is like a frog in a pot that doesn't realize the water is coming to a boil, but I think the text is pretty clear that the characters only ever feel trapped and they could flip the dark/light switch just by choosing to do so. For all the more recent waffling about how unproductive that binary is, it seems to be a natural law that the Force IS binary. Anakin's a bad person and the Jedi are a bad institution, but no one gets yellow eyes and a crazy violent disposition until they're named Darth Whatever and perform an execution.

I'll note that I know this opinion is heavily skewed by a Christian framing, and that doesn't tell the whole story here. For better or worse, that's what I was raised on and that's what I have access to.

i think you're conflating falling to the dark side with becoming a Sith/dark jedi/villain but i dont really think this fundamentally changes my original post about Anakin in Clone Wars regardless. we dont really have to work through what would have happened if he tried to work through his feelings with obi wan or yoda because we already know that doesnt happen, he doesnt flip the switch

I think Star Wars thinks falling to the dark side is the same thing as becoming a villain, or Sith or whatever. Even if Anakin's personality (and the fact that he's in a prequel) means he's going to fall, I can't read RotS as anything other than him grappling with a decision he knows he's going to have to make. If he's already Hitler, he's Hitler in art school.

The story of someone who had fallen to the dark side and then tried to make himself fit into the declining republic would be a sick movie but I do not think it's the movie that exists.

You said on one podcast or another that the best thing about watching the prequels is that you get to think about them afterwards, and I think about that a lot. Any case, much respect to you.

in reply to @amtebbel's post:

I should stop before I start infringing on my friends’ whole thing but I think we only need to look at how the Gungans were treated on Naboo pre-phantom menace to see how Padme might feel about non-human ethnic minorities.

it rarely ever deals with anakin in any other way that him being brash and proud and prone to militaristic solutions to problems. most of the vader foreshadowing moments come via his relationship with padme and his slipping desire to keep it secret, or even continue being a jedi