gabu

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samoyed taur / 32 / ΘΔ
i stream on twitch!! (sometimes???)

 

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fursuit head by AlphaDogs

pfp by BeetleYeen


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preface: i know ideas are cheap and like yeah realistically nobody's going to "steal my game idea", which is why i feel like i should just post about it a little to get my ideas out there and maybe get some thoughts from people, but just bear with me if i'm being a little secretive about it :-)

also warning i'm gonna be rambling on a bit

i've been annoyed by the lack of good games that 1) let you be a funny animal critter, and 2) are about transforming into a funny animal critter but don't have TF as the game-over state. i love the pokemon mystery dungeon games for this because they're like the only games that has both of these aspects

relatedly, i've been annoyed at animal crossing for just refusing letting you be an animal person, and nobody seems to want to make an animal crossing ripoff that lets you be an animal person???

i want to help change this. i want to make furry games. i want to make TF games.

i have a pretty good idea for general gameplay premise in my head which i'm really excited about, but what i'm struggling with is the like... general flow of the storytelling in my head? TF is hard to write when you're writing a game and not a story, and also want to keep the scope of the game manageable lol

to make it easier i'll just take a concrete example, lets say human -> quadruped dragon. for a good TF story you'd need 3 components:

  1. the "before" state. without this there is no contrast with the "after" state. if you don't flesh this out then the transformation has less impact. you NEED to see the human form to appreciate the dragon form.

    but are you gonna make a game where you play as a human for like an hour and then you turn into a dragon and have vastly different gameplay? human can open doors, quadruped dragon can't even fit through a door let alone open them. would that even be fun to play? and as a gamedev you're literally giving yourself double the work

    it's fine for a written story, but it's really easy for a "prologue" like that to drag on and just feel annoying. imagine playing pokemon but for the first hour you don't have a pokemon, and don't do any catching or battling. you don't even SEE a pokemon. or a mech game where for the first hour you're just John Callofduty shooting guns on the ground. that'd suck!! you want to jump right into the gameplay you'll actually be doing (and the player will WANT to be doing)

  2. the "transformation". most of the fun in transformation art and writing is in here. a written story can drag this out over the course of most of the story. but for a game... you can't really DO a lot with this?

    this part is something that happens, it's something you passively consume (cutscene), not something you actively do (gameplay)

    i mean, you could make a game where over the course of the game you transform more and more and unlock new abilities, and only near the end of the game are you finally fully transformed. but to me, if i want to play a game where you get to be a dragon, i want a game where you get to be a dragon, not one where you're a dragon for the final boss

  3. the "after" state. realistically if you're making a TF game where the TF isn't a game over state... this is where your gameplay is gonna happen... and it's a little bit of a shame.

    pokemon mystery dungeon starts here. it skips right through stages 1 and 2. you're being told that your character used to be a human.

    i guess it gets away with this because it's not trying to be a TF game. but i am...

part of the problem here is that like, theres obviously a difference between a more roleplaying choose-your-own-adventure game that's about your character that you create, and a linear game with a pre-defined character where it'd be much easier to write a TF story because it'd be more of a "playable movie"

i guess to give another concrete example: animal crossing games start you out at the start of your "new life". your fresh start. you don't get to see where your character used to live, you don't spend any time with their old friends, etc. there's a good reason they do this!

EDIT: or take stardew valley for example. the opening is like 3 minutes long, it shows you Grandpa On His Shitty Freaking Bed, it shows the player character's old awful life as a corporate wage slave and it shows their decision to leave it behind and become a farmer. but it gets to go through the story setup this fast, because, it's not a game about transforming from an office worker into a farmer. it's a game about being a farmer, who is a former office worker.

but for a hypothetical "tf animal crossing", i'd be stuck between two bad options

  1. bore a player with pre-TF content before the "real game" begins, which animal crossing skips for a good reason
  2. massively weaken the TF aspect of the story by skipping over the actual TF, leaving me with only post-TF writing to capture that aspect. it'd be a lot of telling and not a lot of showing

ughhhh this is hard!!!


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in reply to @gabu's post:

Letting or forcing the character to change back and forth lets you have the two states without one of them being “wasted”. Axiom Verge 2 lets you change forms between a humanoid and a little spider drone thing with different abilities, which results in some truly phenomenal platforming. These transformations kinda seem less impactful, I guess, but maybe you could work something out where the mere ability to transform is something that changes a character drastically without necessarily changing their usual form’s gameplay. A good example would be lycanthropy, where you’re still undeniably altered even when you aren’t under the light of a full moon.

Anyways I love both gamedev and transformation, and seeing a post with both tags was fun. I think you’re really onto something here with your thought process for approaching this.

oh yes definitely! its a little easier to incorporate transformation into the gameplay when transformation can be a gameplay mechanic rather than a story point

sofsh from this comment brings up Monster Boy, and i'd also give Zelda Twilight Princess as examples of games where transforming is a gameplay mechanic

sadly that doesn't really work in my case because the kind of story i want to tell is one where you embrace your new form, and the gameplay is unrelated to transforming ^^; i don't really want the player to "turn back" or swap between forms because that goes against that theme

Aaahhh I see

I’m generally less into permanent tf’s outside of like wish-fulfillment identity-euphoria type stuff so this is kind of outside of my area of tf expertise lol

Maybe this is something flashbacks could help with? So you start the game as a quadrupedal dragon, but you keep finding stuff that makes a "oh gosh remember when I was a human" cutscene happen. That'd fix the pacing issues a bit, although maybe without the linearity it might lose a little bit of impact. I'm admittedly a bit more "Post-TF story" focused than "TF story" focused in the things I like thinking about myself, so maybe that's why this is my first thought.

As for other thoughts: Monster Boy comes to mind as a decent way of doing a TF game, although it's not really juicy as far as the transformations itself, since they're instant and on command. Also, just fully agreeing on: why the heck does animal crossing not let you play as an animal, and how is that not a thing other people have made as a standalone game either?

flashbacks could definitely help with the pacing, but it'd definitely be a lot weaker than "playing" the human part and the transformation. maybe it just is what it is.

Monster Boy, especially Dragon's Trap which i'm best familiar with, is actually a really good example because that one has you play a short prologue stage as a human and get cursed into lizard form. you get to play out the "before" part of the story and and get to see the "transformation" part of the story

it works there because its a metroidvania platformer, but if you're making a animal crossing/stardew type game where you're building up a new life that entire part will have no gameplay (i.e. imagine if stardew valley had a portion of the game you played before you get the farm; there'd be no gameplay, just suffering to contrast the joy of the farm afterward)

also funny thing is i'm also a bit more post-TF focused and the game/story i want to make is also mostly post-TF focused! i just think it'd be good to have a human prologue to make it more impactful.

what i actually want to focus on is a story where you're a human who turns into a monster (which is not uncommon in this world)(note: probably a dragon because giving many different species options would be way too big of a scope for just one person), and you leave your former human life and home (which is no longer suited for your new form) behind to live with monsters in an rpg dungeon, some of which are also former humans. i want to focus on themes of building up a new life, of learning to love and embrace your new form, and making closer bonds with people who are just like you

tangentally related, i recently discovered that cassette beasts is all about tf'ing into the creatures rather than pokemon's standard of having a team of creatures, and that has admittedly made me much more interested in the game lol

having the game be fully text based means no art assets and you can get as granular in description as you want. paperdoll style assets with some procedural animation might be really complicated to set up but i think it would be possible to swap out body parts and have animations gradually shift from one state to another? im imagining vanillaware style paperdolls where they essentially draw two frames plus a transitional wipe for animations. it's something ive thought of messing with but more in the context of swapping out mech parts.

alternatively you get turned into a dragon in the first 20 minutes i guess and now you cant open doors until you evolve thumbs or encounter doors with lever handles instead of knobs or like... get a buddy to turn knobs for you until you learn a spell that lets you do that or something

im def thinking about this in the context of search action but i think there's def potential of Gaining A Move(in the context of the tf) involving losing something else that you either gotta gain an alternative for or just otherwise regain as part of another new thing. like you gain a tail and after a while it becomes prehensile to compensate for a loss of regular arms

gonna reply on this last one but re these past 3 posts

yeah definitely the power of text!! i'm still always thinking about the roguelike POWDER, which has a polymorph effect that turns you into a random monster, but not only does it change all your stats and available moves, it also changes which equipment slots are available AND the text labels of each slot.

the vibes of that instantly embedded themselves into my mind. a snake would only have a head, neck (but labeled "body"), and a single ring slot (labeled "tail tip"). for tree monsters the head would be "crown", the body would be "trunk". for animals the ring slots would be claws and hands would be paws.......

also i love the idea of every door in the game just being unopenable like when a map designer adds doors but theres nothing behind it sfdhfkj

but yeah you'd explicitly be moving to a monster village because those are more suited to monster's various shapes and needs

o yeah there's a lot of roguelikes that have fun mutation mechanics but i dont think many of them have it as the Main Event as much as a funny side build thing. the idea of a lil life sim game where your form does a lot for how you're able to navigate the world does sound fun... imagining a kind of chulip or chibi robo type thing where your lil movement tools keep changing so you gotta get help form others/can help others that cant do what you can now. designing around having a very set that grows into something different rather than just more def sounds really tricky...

I suppose the cleanest way to do this is "Animal Crossing but after you finish the intro section you can just become an animal", since being an animal has no mechanical differences/dialog differences/etc. You could even keep the same animation skeleton if you wanted to. You could keep a couple bespoke scenes about the transformation in there if you wanted to for the theming, but this is all sort of side stepping the issues you bring up.

The only game that comes close to tackling this in the way you describe that I can think of is Banjo-Tooie, where Kazooie can just become a dragon (though that's still reversible and not important to the theming!)

yeah you could definitely make "animal crossing where you are an animal" but i want to combine it with too many other ideas at the same time maybe haha... too many building blocks that don't fit together nicely yet, need to chip some pieces off or think of some connecting pieces