With INDIE INTERVIEWS, I talk to the game developers hanging here on Cohost to learn more about new games you might love.
There's a lot of different paths up the indie dev mountain! Everyone's coming at it from different angles, different life experiences. Today I have an interview with @danielleri, the current EIC of GameDeveloper.com, about her path up that mountain! And even better, she has been collecting a lot of useful tips and tools to help devs start climbing.
You can find The Tunnel on itch.io
Introduce yourself for everyone here on Cohost! Who are you?
Hi! I’m Danielle Riendeau, I’m the editor-in-chief of Game Developer (dot com!) formerly of Fanbyte, Waypoint, and Polygon. I’m also a hobbyist game dev (been making and releasing tiny games since around 2013-2014), a game design lecturer at the Berklee College of Music, and a volunteer EMT here in Brooklyn and Queens. I also do submission grappling and I’m learning some basic pixel art these days to help out with my tiny game projects!
How did you find yourself first getting into the games industry?
This is a bit weird but I went to grad school for film production, and found myself in the exciting (to me, at the time, this is like 2006-2009) world of freelance writing to help support myself. I always wrote about games—and film, and other media—and while I started my full time career in the nonprofit world, I freelanced for places like Kill Screen and EGM and G4 until, one day, Polygon had an opening for a full time reviews writer. So! I’ve been writing about games full time since 2013. As I mentioned above, I’ve been making games (and teaching) since around then (or before, in terms of teaching), so I’ve always been involved in multiple sides of the space. I’m one of those writers who does think having a bit of experience making the type of art you comment on/report on is helpful (not everyone agrees with this! But this is discourse from another era, lol).
You have experience in teaching, in games journalism, in indie game dev, and in being a volunteer EMT. This might be ridiculous to ask, but...is there anything you've learned over the years that you feel has helped you across all four fields? Are there any similarities between, say, games and being an EMT?
Oh, absolutely! There are a ton of things I take from one world to the others—a lot of it is very foundational how you relate to other human beings stuff, and some is more practical or simply informs my worldview. I find myself being a teacher in multiple areas of my life: as an instructor obviously, but also when teaching new EMTs (often on their very first or within their first couple of) shifts, since I work as a crew chief on a volunteer ambulance and the vollies (as we are called) are very community and teaching oriented. I also think my management style at work is informed by teaching and a sort of scaffolding approach—trying to balance giving folks enough structure to do well but never taking over or micromanaging (this is what I aim for, anyway!). Plus, a lot of game design is communication and teaching: you impart things on your players. It shouldn’t (usually? almost ever?) be didactic, but you can see some direct lines there.
There’s also the fact that my work in EMS informs so much of my life and perspective: it’s something I’ve made little games about and I’m currently making a slightly larger (but still small!) game called The Tunnel based on a paramedic character. I have a horror screenplay set on an ambulance cooking as well, that I may adapt to a game someday!
Also, weirdly, submission grappling (my sport) informs a lot of how I think about game mechanics and game feel, so that’s a fun abstract one.
I feel like GameDeveloper.com occupies a unique space in the sphere of games writing, in that a lot of its work is directed at developers themselves, as opposed to enthusiasts. Does that pose any different challenges for you as a staff versus a "news and reviews" approach?
It’s very different indeed! In some ways, it’s a pretty pure blessing: not having to be as married to the release schedule (and much worse, the often toxic DISCOURSE MACHINE and overall hype cycle for every single AAA game) is incredibly freeing! We obviously do timely coverage, but I’m happy to be a bit more removed from the product cycle itself. I've also been obsessed with our Developer Insights section for long, long before I worked here (and have been using materials from here in teaching for over a decade). Every aspect of the craft is interesting and fun for me to learn more about. I feel giddy thinking about the sheer volume of incredible insight on the site. I get so excited to dive in (even to older things like classic GDC talks—I often write up recaps of those) to that side of our content that I called it a “treasure trove” in my initial interview, meant it 100% then and mean it 100% now too.
In other ways, there are challenges for me personally: we are a B2B publication, and some aspects of that were a steep learning curve for me! I think the first time I edited a story about an earnings call I felt like I needed to go back to school for a few semesters, lol. I’ve been learning a LOT this year, and my team has been absolutely amazing.
I've noticed that over the past year on Cohost, you've been sharing a lot of your investigation into recommended tools for beginner devs: free tools for art, best platforms to sell your game on, low-cost programs and engines to develop in. In a world where we usually hear about Unity and Unreal, are there any resources out there that you think new developers aren't taking advantage of?
So I'm going to totally plug my little pillar page on free and low cost tools here, since you mentioned it! But yes, smaller game engines and tools are one of my favorite aspects of the scene: I adore software like Bitsy and Narrat and Decker, and tell my students to go and play with all of them (and other tools like them), scope small, and FINISH a few game projects, even if they are tiny, to get used to finishing games (very much in the spirit of this Derek Yu piece). I personally use Unity as well, almost always with Yarn Spinner, a narrative tool created by and run by an especially rad team of folks, so there are cool things to support and play with even if you do opt for one of the bigger engines.
I honestly think that cool and interesting small game dev tools are one of the best (possibly one of the only unmitigated great) things about living in 2023. I want for everyone on planet earth who wants to make games to be able to do so, and things like this feel like a positive little step towards that.
I shared a few of the lesser-known resources in the pieces linked, but I am always looking for more, so, if folks know of any, I'm happy to make updates!
When teaching students, is there something about game design that you feel like "clicks" with them the best? Is there an "aha" moment or something that you find resonates with your students most about the material?
The very best part of being a teacher is seeing that "aha!" light up on a student's face. When we are chatting about something interesting in game design or some aspect of the craft, and they clearly make a connection between ideas and craft and reality and have that "holy shit! I can do that!" moment in their brain. I live for that, in both my students and in myself.
It's a bit tough to generalize what might precipitate that moment, but it often comes from revealing some sort of pathway or step forward towards realizing a vision. Game dev can feel like a vast, deep, potentially terrifying forest to get lost in. The joy of finding a pathway forward (even if it's just a few steps) is electrifying.
In this, the same way that great games can surprise and delight... learning about great design and production tricks can surprise and delight! (Ok, maybe just for particular types of dorks, myself included).
I also just love it when they just succeed. I saw a recent student post that they got a very cool audio production role in games on my Linkedin recently, and I almost got up and did a dance.
Any general advice for aspiring indie devs out there?
The advice that I see often and co-sign is that new folks should make small games and finish them: even if they are tiny, one minute long (or shorter!) projects. Derek Yu's blog on being a finisher in this world is fantastic!
I also advise folks to learn to be producers (even if they are going to work solo, to self-produce): learning to manage your work, set it into tasks (I use Trello for everything, it's glorious) and keep track of your progress is so key. Adam Robinson Yu has a really rad GDC talk on making A Short Hike that goes into his own task-tracking process that directly inspired me in my own solo work, and I swear by it. Even if I don't put specific deadlines on all aspects of my personal work, knowing exactly where I am on each and every step of development helps me to waste less time and I think it's made me a better designer overall.
Also, generally, I want to put out the notion of "go ahead and make your stuff, my friend." We live in a cruel, crappy world, humans always have, and I want to believe in a Star Trek future, but that doesn't look too likely, so make sure to do the things that really bring you joy. If that's making games (or movies, or comics, or paintings of your cat, whatever), just go for it. Be free of the expectations that it needs to be a rousing success, whatever your "success" metric looks like.
That doesn't mean that everyone on earth will produce great art or works of sublime expression, and that's totally ok. Just make your stuff: if you get something out of it, it's worthwhile.
Lastly, are there any indie games out there you've been playing recently? Any favorites to shout-out?
I basically never stop playing Into the Breach (it's a running joke how many thousands of hours I've put into the game), I still think it's one of the best-designed games I've ever played in my life. My partner and I just played through Immortality together and we're working through The Wandering Village, and I think we're going to check out Venba soon! I also have a truly embarrassing backlog of indie games I really want to play, including Viewfinder and Bomb Rush Cyberfunk, so I'm looking forward to those (soon, hopefully, but one day regardless!)
Thank you for the awesome interview questions!
Thank you for answering them! For everyone else, you can follow @danielleri here on Cohost. I also highly recommend checking out Danielle's posts about all the tools and programs available for beginner indie devs! Go check them out!
