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mammonmachine
@mammonmachine

You know, speaking of the desire for attention, something I appreciate about Disco Elysium is that constantly belittling the protagonist works because, even if negatively, the world responds to you and what you do authentically and with detail. The attention you get is fulfilling even when at your expense. So many games heap suffocating praise on the player to convince you that you are important and special, but getting praised all the time no matter what you do feels like placation, not attention. Maybe that's why so many enjoy even meaningless or annoying ways to get the game to respond to them, like choices that go nowhere or NPCs that scold you for acting weird, the same way a misbehaving child acts out for attention. Maybe we should think of "immersion" as something more like the illusion of the world responding to you, which is just "attention" by another name.


bruno
@bruno

Yeah, this is something that we also think about with Fallen London – we group this under the set of players we term 'role-players' but there's really a specific thing there, the desire to just get your choices/aesthetics/character acknowledged.

In general, I tend to call story material that acknowledges or reacts to the player's choices, etc, 'reactivity'.

And really the way we think about that, it doesn't matter whether the acknowledgement is positive reinforcement at all. In fact, sometimes players are really excited to get acknowledgement that their character is some kind of loser or asshole.


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in reply to @mammonmachine's post:

me fully immersed in metal gear solid by making snake rapidly knock on the door to his jail cell to make johnny yell "shut up in there will ya! shut up! shut up! shut up in there will ya! shut up!" over and over again

YES huge agree. reminds me of with BG3 how players will go out their way to lick a dead spider multiple times just to see Gale basically go "what the FUCK are you doing". Or in stardew valley, if I go through a bin in front of an NPC they think I'm a weirdo for it. if I'm being annoying or weird or doing dumb shit in a game, I want the characters to notice.

This is what keeps me from replaying Mass Effect 1 and 3 (and 2, to a lesser extend, but 2 is my favourite part so it gets more slack) - everybody is praising Sheppard to high heavens while all he did was to win a single skirmish here and there, and occasionally be in a right place in a right time. It is suffocating, just as you said.

in reply to @bruno's post:

Legitimately my favorite thing in FL is when NPCs (mostly cats) acknowledge that by all rights and honors I am an honorary cat. Even though every time this happens, it also reminds me that the other item I could have gotten with a different choice is mechanically superior, but would not let me be an honorary cat.

I have said in jest, but am moderately serious about it, that Light Fingers has the best Ambition rewards (tied with the oft-maligned Adoration ending of HD) because you get a form of address. I get to see the game world react to my decisions far more pervasively than most other players.