gosokkyu

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@gosokkyu

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gosokkyu
@gosokkyu
gosokkyu
@gosokkyu
brlka
@brlka

where are the genre-specific game making tools for action games?

a lot of the most successful game making tools for beginners are genre specific - stuff like Ren'Py (visual novels), Twine (interactive fiction), PuzzleScript (sokoban-likes), RPG maker (c'mon), and so on. even when these tools are subverted towards a different end - e.g. RPG maker horror games - the genre foundation provides a language to work with that's more intuitive to someone just starting out in game development.

from what i've seen, action games genres don't really have equivalent tools - or at least as popular ones? if i'm wrong let me know, but it seems like most of that stuff is still relegated to more generalized tools like game maker. part of this might be that action games are just a little finickier and more granular in nature in a way that resists toolage. and actually, when i think about it, the closest thing to what i'm thinking about might have been like... game maker 8 or klik and play, which there doesn't seem to be a modern equivalent of?

at any rate, i feel like watching the course of amateur game development over the last couple decades the arc has bent away from actiony stuff to more narrative stuff, and at a distance it seems like a good part of that is attributable to what the accessible tools are at the time. of course there's nothing wrong with narrative stuff !! but 2d action stuff can be a rich space for people just starting out, and i suspect closer to what some people want to make when they imagine making games. i'd love to see what a hobbyist scene where making a masocore platformer or a shmup was as easy to jump into as a bitsy game would look like

gosokkyu
@gosokkyu

STG Builder!

this is a freeware STG creation tool, created and maintained by a lone Japanese dev since the late '00s, that has been used to create dozens of free and indie STG for PC and, by way of Hanaji Games' home-spun wrapper, Switch: http://blog.livedoor.jp/stgbuilder/ 🇯🇵

Here are some of the more noteworthy recent games made with this engine:

The engine was supposed to have been sunset in favour of a successor many years ago, but that new version's been in dev limbo for years, so people have continued to chip away with the classic version; even so, those attempting commercial dev have largely felt pressured into adopting more "professional" engines (in no small part due to there being no innate support for consoles), so there's a sense that STGBuilder's days are numbered. (EDIT: hold that!)

There is one big STGBuilder project still on the horizon: Devil Blade, a game being made by Vanillaware artist Shigatake in his spare time, which has been in the works for several years and seems like it might finally be done sometime within the next ~ 12 months.

(Incidentally, Devil Blade is the latest game in a series of home-made STG dating back to the mid-'90s that were built using Dezaemon, a modestly popular series of STG-maker software released across Famicom, Super Famicom, Sega Saturn, Nintendo 64 and Playstation—quite a few of STGBuilder's most active users have direct ties to the Dezaemon scene, as it happens.)

gosokkyu
@gosokkyu

Shooting Game Builder, available now on Steam, $19.99 (20% launch discount)

(The dev's also released a free demo game, G-Scramble, for the purposes of verifying Steam Deck compatibility and whatnot)

This new version runs in 64-bit, with the ability to import projects from the existing 32-bit version, and adds a smattering of new features that won't mean anything to anyone jumping in now but that you might've thought would have already been a thing (like true native user-side key config support!), and a few developers, including the makers of Kaikan (which is getting an upgraded commercial release in the near future) and GRAND CROSS: Re:NOVATION (a game that pushed the old tool to its limits) are already in the process of shifting their game to the newest version.

The ever-helpful Shigatake wrote a brief rundown of the strengths/weaknesses of STGBuilder on their fanbox acct, which should help you decide whether it might be able to help you see through whatever ideas you might be envisioning:

STRENGTHS OF STGBUILDER

  • conventional STG dev (horizontally-scrolling, vertically-scrolling, fixed-screen)
  • allows one to make games with no knowledge of code or specific programming languages (but making anything beyond a certain level will require some degree of programmatic mindset)
  • extremely flexible, with most game systems entirely achievable via full use of the scripting system
  • quick to start, load, debug and build projects
  • highly performant and can display a high number of objects (good for danmaku, obviously)

WEAKNESSES OF STGBUILDER (as of August 2023)
*× = not supported / △ = possible but difficult/requires workarounds

  • × simultaneous two-player
  • × analogue input (left/right sticks are detected as digital)
  • △ non-STG (action games, etc)
  • △ checkpoint-based revival (a la R-TYPE; as opposed to instant on-the-spot respawn)
  • △ free multi-directional scrolling (a la Bosconian, etc)
  • △ scrolling stages that loop up/down or left/right (a la certain Gradius stages, etc)
  • △ in-stage shops (a la Fantasy Zone; between-stage shops are no issue)

Essentially, while it has its pros and cons, they think you'll be able to make something comparable to any given classic STG if you're willing to fully come to grips with it.

They also provided the new logo, which was nice of 'em.

The dev's also shared both EN and JP documentation on github—I haven't looked over the EN docs so I can't speak to the quality of the translation, but I do know there were a couple of volunteers working with the dev for a long time who were kludging all the text together with google translate; I poked a translator their way a while ago in the hopes they'd take the hint but I don't think that went anywhere, so if you spot any loc issues, make your voice heard and maybe the dev will take the hint.

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in reply to @brlka's post:

ItsMeLilyV
@ItsMeLilyV

There is a SHMUP maker! I can't vouch for how useful it is, but I've been wanting to check it out: https://www.shmupcreator.com/

There's also Super Dungeon Maker for Zelda-like dungeon games: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1622800/Super_Dungeon_Maker/

But yea, I am surprised that there aren't more popular / commercial tools for action subgenres. It's clear there's some interest in platformer engines with stuff like Mario Maker...

There's also def been a bigger shift to more generalist engines in the last decade. I wonder if it has to do with the barrier to programming lowering over time? But wow, if I had had access to a platformer maker when I was a kid, it would've been all over.

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sakiamu
@sakiamu

I mean, depending on the variety of action game, a lot of the existing engines are kinda out-of-the-box built for them. Not to the level of Bitsy or RPG maker, to be sure.

But:

The default sort of game for UE 4/5 is a first/third person shooter, the defaults are lined up for that, and to build other sorts of games, you have to tune away from that.

For Godot, the existing KinematicBody2D node is about 50 lines of code away from being a basic platformer character controller, and about 25 from being a Shump or Top-Down shooter controller.

(I can't speak to Unity's defaults there, but I suspect they are similar).

Now, granted, this isn't necessarily obvious, and there are a lot of other things that are easy to get wrong here.

For a Shmup in a 2D library (I like Love2D, but you can also use Raylib for this), you have a basic structure like so:

every frame:

move enemies
move shots

check every player shot against every enemy (you can optimize this as needed, but for LuaJIT it works well enough)
   if an unspent player shot collides with an enemy: 
      damage the enemy 
      mark the shot as spent

check every enemy shot against the player:
   if an unspent enemy shot collides with the player:
       damage the player
       mark the shot as spent

for every enemy that is now dead:
    spawn death particle effects
    mark enemy for removal from list of ememies

if no enemies are left, or a enough time has passed:
    go to the next wave

if no waves are left:
    go to next level

if no levels are left:
   go to endscreen

There are more details, like the drawing, and the enemy logic. Overall, basic 2D shumps are relatively easy to start with in code, IMO. Granted, that's not as accessible as Bitsy, but it is, at a rough guess, 2x of what you'd run into in Ren'py?

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renkotsuban
@renkotsuban

Pixel Game Maker MV is supposed to be the action game equivalent of RPG Maker. (RPG Maker in Japan is called RPGツクール and PGMMV is アクションゲームツクール)

Pocket Platformer is a lot smaller and more niche, but I've seen people who don't normally make games throw together some fun jam stuff in it.

And I have seen so. SO many Unity devs get started with Corgi Engine. (I'm personally not a fan of how Corgi Engine games feel but it is undeniably an easy and guided way for people to just get started making platformers and the like.)

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highimpactsex
@highimpactsex

SRPG Studio is hella pricey and has issues, but it was a needed engine because it was either that or SRPG Maker 95.

people who were interested on making SRPGs before SRPG Studio had to content with SM95 for ages… playing games on that engine makes me want to scream.

that said, SRPG Studio plays out like Kaga’s Fire Emblem too well. it doesn’t have MP systems, that needs to be plugged in.

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in reply to @gosokkyu's post:

renkotsuban
@renkotsuban

I was JUST telling a friend that STG Builder was about to get a Steam release and they should look into it for making their shmup-making needs, thank you for both reminding me that it's out now and for this incredible wealth of info about it!!

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