pervocracy
@pervocracy

getting a little frustrated by how much of Baldur's Gate 3 is "here's a big complicated story situation! you have no idea what outcome is desirable nor what choices lead to what outcome! also if you fail even one of four consecutive persuasion rolls your choices will backfire anyway"

and I think this is somewhat on me for thinking that I need to get the "good" outcome on every quest. clearly that's not a necessary thing to keep going in the game. or I sure hope it's not.


amagire
@amagire

Disco Elysium - failure is a designed and intentional part of the mechanics of storytelling (complimentary)

Heavy Rain - failure is a designed and intentional part of the mechanics of storytelling (derogatory)


ivym
@ivym

I think the problem is that getting into a fight is one of the most boring outcomes but also is one of the expected outcomes if you fail a roll, which is mostly a failure of the writing if you ask me.

the thing is, a lot of the actual fights are very fun but having to be in them bc you failed a roll is not that interesting as a default conversation result posture. it doesn't feel good


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in reply to @pervocracy's post:

I always WANT this in games - for failure to be occasionally inevitable, and consequential, and irreversible - and to design it in my own games. but so much of the literacy that games teach us is predicated on sides always being possible, every time, that it’s hard to get in this spirit myself, let alone convince others of it.

Yeah, I'm trying to embrace this. The frustration is I might be losing gameplay-significant things like quests/vendors/allies/etc., but I guess that as long as it doesn't make the game unwinnable, that can also be part of the story.

(and I don't think a game like Baldur's Gate 3 would allow the player to get stuck in an unwinnable state, so it's probably fine that I keep ending my negotiations with shootouts)

For the most part I've been able to get good outcomes to many story situations despite my MC having the charisma of a potato (dwarf barbarian). Poking around in the environment and using stealth/traversal magic to snoop goes a long way, since knowing environmental information is a surefire way to skip several dialogue checks or branch to new questlines!

Most of the Barbarian class options are just "[Intimidation] You SCREM at them and fight them" which also solves 99% of problems by knocking out the party who I like less.

I picked my MC on a whim without knowing which builds are Optimal, so I'm a half-elf ranger with tragically unspecialized stats. Also I am super bad at stealth, not so much as an aspect of my character but my own personality. and then I make Gale set all my problems on fire

in reply to @ivym's post:

this is my recurring issue with stealth games, I love sneaking about and I love hitting things with a sword but I hate when "now you have to hit things with a sword" is my punishment for fucking up the stealth

:yeah: it's just failure of imagination. why not, when someone gets upset with me for failing a die roll, do I not get thrust into a battle of wits or forced into a contest of arm wrestling or something? maybe a foot race. like come on please I'm dying here lol