bad Venezolano, trying to be a good human. queer

idealistic, fatalist, never pragmatic

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so I feel like this was an unpopular point of view on twitter, and of course the cohost people have made their decision. understandable! but there are aspects of the algorithmic timeline that I found very useful. in fact, for a long time, my algorithmic twitter timeline was really good! it was the "your friend liked/followed/replied to" stuff that really killed it...now, one can argue that algorithmic timelines will always trend towards this sort of thing. maybe! and I think there are other ways to achieve what I want, and I have hope that cohost will continue to invest in tools that let us curate various feeds.

in my case, the reason the algorithmic timeline was useful was 1. I followed a lot of people and 2. I am time shifted by ~12 hours from a huge chunk of the people I follow. without the algorithmic timeline, my timeline basically became 100% japanese cosplayers and artists...I'd have to scroll a ton to see anything by people in america etc. of course, one could argue that "I did this to myself," and maybe I did, but I mean...the experience was pretty good in the past--the algorhithm did a decent job of surfacing interest tweets from my follows. again, I think there are potentially other ways to deal with this problem, but I do think it is a problem. I don't think the solution is to simply follow less people...this is a data organization problem and I feel like we can come up with better patterns to deal with it

of course, the problem is that once you have an algorthmic timeline, the temptation to tweak it in ways that optimize for likes or whatever become too tantalizing, which is exactly what happened, and earlier this year my twitter timeline became significantly more useless. which is a damn shame


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in reply to @jco's post:

the biggest issue i have with them is that you lose so much agency. your social distance (or closeness) with people is based on how much you talk to them (and they to you). so the idea that an algorithm outside of my control is pushing me towards some people and away from others (and them away from me) is just haunting and awful.

in terms of your problem it feels like a much easier solution is to be able to filter posts by time zone or something, or put people on custom lists? (it's possible that would end up being to annoying.)

anyway, just my thoughts.

nah, I think you are right. I do think that the solution isn't algorithms, for exactly the reason you site, but rather better tools for managing information. the tag system here is one set of tools, and with some investment I could see it being very good. on my end yeah some more intentionality with how I manage who I follow I think is good but I guess I like having a bunch of different people, so it comes down to how to surface "the people who matter 'more'", "people whose art I like", "people who have interesting takesetc etc

See, for me, content injection is kind of the defining characteristic of Twitter. It's kinda harmful, but also a huge part of the appeal. That's what makes it the global town square rather than a local block party. It's why I will read Facebook for a short time and feel satisfied, or peek at Instagram for two seconds and get bored, but get hopelessly addicted to Twitter and end up scrolling for hours.

I'm not sure if chronological timelines can ever scale. I like cataloging things a lot more than the average person, but I can't maintain Facebook / LiveJournal friend lists, Google+ circles, etc on platforms beyond a certain point.

In addition to the time zone issue you mention, there's the imbalance where some people post alllllll the time and some people post rarely. I don't want the frequent posters to completely drown everyone else out, but I also don't want to drop them altogether. There's also the huge amount of space that reposts, image posts, and long text posts take up on this site. I miss the fact that tweets are small, and I even like the fact that you won't see an entire tweet thread by default.

Yes, you nailed it all.

I'm not sure if chronological timelines can ever scale. I like cataloging things a lot more than the average person, but I can't maintain Facebook / LiveJournal friend lists, Google+ circles, etc on platforms beyond a certain point.

Especially this. So I'm not sure what the balance is. I do think that there are probably deterministic tools that can help with a lot of these issues...but some of these issues boil down to there simply being too much content out there, and it's really hard to choose! So we punt that out to an algorithm for all of the reasons you laid you. I think the clear, deterministic stuff can only get us so far without forcing us to engage in a lot of organization (curating lists etc). Maybe part of it is also to make that sort of thing a lot easier and ergonomic? I'm not sure. I do think algorithms have their place here because the problem is inherent to the huge stream of information that we all have to deal with, and the difficulty of prioritizing that. But I'm not sure what form that should take...