jae

@jkap

CEO of posting

they/she
jkap.io/

butch jewish dyke
part of @staff, cohost user #1
married to @kadybat

This user can say it

🔵 tumblr

yrfriendjkap.tumblr.com/

🐘 mastodon

xoxo.zone/@jkap

🖼️ icon credit

twitter.com/osmoru

🐦 twitter

not anymore lol

🎬 letterboxd

letterboxd.com/yrfriendjkap/

jae @jkap11/15/2023, 2:25 AM

fun fact about the cohost global feed

it is the cause of every single unpopular decision around tag search/visibility we have had to make, and the cause of all performance issues that stemmed from those decisions. i will not elaborate on this further. i hate the cohost global feed and spend much of my time considering ways to render it fully useless since the only way to truly kill it is through irrelevance.

EDIT: i'm elaborating a bit. the performance issues don't come from having a bunch of posts in the same tag (this costs us literally nothing), it comes from the arcane "effective search tags" system we had to create to cut down on the community/social issues that stemmed from people using the global feed to put posts in front of a much larger audience than was initially intended by OP, which was almost exclusively used for harassment. most of these perf issues have been resolved by now but it sucked to get here, and (at least imo) the global feed phenomenon has stunted the growth of a healthy tag culture.

9AM EDIT: i am locking comments on this post because it became mad unconstructive overnight. the correct read of "render it fully useless" is "make it so that it's not necessary", not "force everyone off of it."

Comments on this post are locked.

in reply to @jkap's post:

walking mirage @atomicthumbs11/15/2023, 2:28 AM

My Apologies

if i had known what would happen i would have deleted my initial post and nipped it in the bud

if you wanted to guide users out of using it (without actually doing tag gardening/aliasing/whatever you'd call taking more direct action) i wonder if a nag message for things tagged with global feed tags would help. i dunno

walking mirage @atomicthumbs11/15/2023, 2:46 AM

im frankenstein asking people to please kill my monster or at least find a way to make him unpopular

Ξ @exerian11/15/2023, 2:49 AM

don't worry. none of this is actually your fault. #global is just a thing that happens when an online community doesn't have a global feed and the user base hits critical mass. i think the only way to really deal with it is to give the people a proper global channel, lobby, whatever. and that would def kill your monster.

walking mirage @atomicthumbs11/15/2023, 2:56 AM

i do not think it is a good idea to have a #global at all

@caranatar11/15/2023, 4:20 AM

This is the abstinence only education approach and it works just as well

in tuft we trust @tit11/15/2023, 4:39 AM

i like browsing it to explore the site & get eyes from folks from other bubbles on my posts, as discoverability on here is pretty limited otherwise.

Mightfo @Mightfo11/15/2023, 4:41 AM

yeah, the unfamiliar potpourri aspect of can be nice

Binary @binary11/15/2023, 2:28 AM

That makes perfect sense lmao. Sorry about the stress test

barabinson @barabinson11/15/2023, 2:31 AM

damn, i didn't think it was that bad but thinking about it, it makes sense

Pendell @pendell11/15/2023, 2:34 AM

yeah okay the best way to slay the beast at this point is probably to make it into an uncool thing. Like how (I know this is a horrible example) 4chan made the use of tripcodes and "usernames" culturally unpopular. optional features one can use but they're heavily discouraged and people who do are oft seen as posers or losers unless they're doing a Bit.

Gay Eminem on 9/11 @DecayWTF11/15/2023, 2:36 AM

I dunno if calling everyone who uses the global feed tag slurs is really gonna help though

Talen Lee @TalenLee11/15/2023, 2:57 AM

what if we invented some slurs

@aune11/15/2023, 3:00 AM

we could take globeheads, the community that uses it right now doesn't deserve it

plasmon @plasmon11/15/2023, 3:47 AM

I concur. Calling people globehead is a good idea.

Robert Hutchinson @ertchin11/15/2023, 3:04 AM

I believe 4chan has made great strides on that front as well!

glotch @glotch11/15/2023, 2:39 AM

just start reblogging every post that has the global feed tag and post this image

lord farquaad pointing with the caption "GLOBAL FEED USER"

(do not do this)

Plum @plumpan11/15/2023, 5:04 AM

To be honest there's for sure a type of poster that tagged all of their posts to the global feed and I enjoyed it as a mark of character. I assumed most other people did too.

🌌🐈🐉@kda11/15/2023, 2:36 AM

(Edit: my initial comment was clearly a bad idea.)

jae @jkap11/15/2023, 2:40 AM

there’s a reason we don’t have an official global feed, opt-in or otherwise, and it’s that we think they are harmful for building a healthy community

@mehbark11/15/2023, 2:43 AM

i like this; cohost's willingness to make compromises to achieve its goals is its best feature imo

Francine @witnesstheabsurd11/15/2023, 3:14 AM

What do you think is the impulse behind Global Feed tag usage? I feel like a better way to taper it off or kill it would be to find a way to satisfy the desire GF users have via an avenue that does fit with Cohost's design philosophy. I barely touched it myself but for me it was about not knowing which tags were popular and wanting more eyes on my work and crucially, more comments, because those feel like the primary motivating factor for sharing work here. The GF felt like an easy way to know that I was posting in a tag alongside a large user body, whereas I couldn't know how many people were actually looking at any combination of more specific tags and it's exhausting tagging every possible variant of every descriptive element of my work.

rahisaurus @rahisaurus11/15/2023, 3:24 AM

I think the question is: how do people find users and/or tags to follow in the first place? Without some global way of scrolling past things and discovering them, you just have to shoot in the dark by typing things into the tag search. And hope the people posting your interests aren't using a slightly different obscure tag

Maybe a "random post" button might do something?

@AndreL11/15/2023, 3:40 AM

But then there needs to be a whole opt-in/opt-out system for the random posts.

rahisaurus @rahisaurus11/15/2023, 3:43 AM

Sure, I'd opt into it.

walking mirage @atomicthumbs11/15/2023, 2:42 AM

i have (personally) come to believe that the concept of a single opt-in non-specific global feed is a mistake in and of itself, not just the fact that it's a tag. i don't think the site needs one.

a single tag to encourage discoverability made some sense to me when the site was a lot smaller, but seeing how it actually went when people adopted my joke tag, and how it's been used (and how it has affected things), makes me think it's had a stifling effect on the organic development of the site's tagging culture, at minimum.

it integrates and lashes together things and groups that would be better off given space to grow

🌌🐈🐉@kda11/15/2023, 2:47 AM

Oh, yeah, there's definitely been that effect.

I've personally found the tag useful for getting ~exposure~, largely because it's non-specific, but that's probably just because I've yet to have a widely-seen post backfire on me on here.

(… …though I'm also coming from the perspective of being someone who rarely uses tags to find others' posts, so—)

@mehbark11/15/2023, 2:52 AM

i do think that the global feed tag kneecaps the bookmarks page (cohost's main discoverability feature) because some people bookmark it. i have almost 100 tags bookmarked and i'm still able to see almost every post in my bookmarks page because i don't have the global feed bookmarked

🍬@Bonbon11/15/2023, 11:55 AM

sameeeeee.
a part of me thought that i was doing cohost Wrong for never checking the global feed, but i was unwilling to saturate my bookmark page with it, and i didn't really want to type it in every time.

🌷 doodlemancy 🌷@doodlemancy11/15/2023, 2:46 AM

oh no lol i had no idea... i'm so sorry... i've been Part Of The Problem

Irenes (many)@ireneista11/15/2023, 2:53 AM

oh. well, sorry about that.

Irenes (many)@ireneista11/15/2023, 3:20 AM

in response to your elaboration - AH. well. fuck. in that case, we agree with your conclusion.

Alard @Alard11/15/2023, 2:53 AM

This doesn't surprise me to hear

The Global Cohost Feed @The-Cohost-Global-Feed11/15/2023, 2:54 AM

i am so sorry

walking mirage @atomicthumbs11/15/2023, 3:00 AM

actually a good non-coercive solution might be to just... not suggest tags containing "The Cohost Global Feed." you can still tag it if you really want to, but you have to type it, and it has the bonus of not suggesting "the cohost global feed (games)" whenever someone types "games" or whatever

i dunno how to encourage it to fade organically other than being loud about it (i would rather not be loud about things)

jae @jkap11/15/2023, 3:02 AM

we've got thoughts and plans, we've just gotta have the time to execute them while simultaneously trying to do Everything Fucking Else that we need to do

walking mirage @atomicthumbs11/15/2023, 3:04 AM

i wish you, collectively, the best in executing on your various schemes

GoatyGoats.com/links (she 🐯)@goaty11/15/2023, 3:16 AM

wow, i didn't know there was harassment happening! good luck coming up with a solution. i never really understood the appeal of the cohost global feed

Tathar is dragons!@Tathar11/15/2023, 3:17 AM

There's a global feed?

walking mirage @atomicthumbs11/15/2023, 3:21 AM

don't worry about it

Kassil @Kassil11/15/2023, 3:22 AM

In the sense of a bunch of tags containing 'The Cohost Global Feed' in them. Which is, as this post indicates, a problem.

Mightfo @Mightfo11/15/2023, 3:55 AM

I understand not having global variants of tags since theres no difference, but I still think its understandable to want to have a way to have more discoverability/visibility beyond your followers, especially given how it can be difficult to tag things effectively in a way that gives them visibility(especially if its not something relevant to very big topics- gaming, art, politics).

Like someone else said, "The GF felt like an easy way to know that I was posting in a tag alongside a large user body, whereas I couldn't know how many people were actually looking at any combination of more specific tags and it's exhausting tagging every possible variant of every descriptive element of my work."

Its also a kind of chicken and egg thing since, frankly, a lot of tags are anemic in terms of the amount they get posted in, so descriptive tagging has its limits unless, idk some combination of very generic tags like "silly" and "effortpost" essentially become viewed enough to become sort of pseudo-global feeds. Regarding "there’s a reason we don’t have an official global feed, opt-in or otherwise, and it’s that we think they are harmful for building a healthy community"- If a tag becomes popular enough, and is generic enough, I'm not sure how different that is from from having an official global feed on that regard tbh, unless I'm misunderstanding the risk mechanisms you're describing.

Connor The Braixen Dreamer @SeafoamGaming11/15/2023, 4:06 AM

Soooooo what you're saying is you do not want freelancers to share their work and use a loophole around the awful discoverability systems here

gotcha

@damon11/15/2023, 5:13 AM

you know this is a deliberately uncharitable read. c'mon buddy. post better. we're all adults here.

in tuft we trust @tit11/15/2023, 5:54 AM

the reply definitely has an Attitude but to me it reads more like "someone who's fucking done with this place" (for reasons outlined by @forSyn below) than "solely posting this for the shit stirring business" (though there definitely some of that present, too)

Connor The Braixen Dreamer @SeafoamGaming11/15/2023, 12:47 PM

I mean yeah, I’ve been here since… late 2022 i wanna say? Around last MFF at least. I’ve always had irritations with this place and discoverability but following my friends here at least made it pretty fun and it replaced my Twitter bookmark fairly quickly when i left that in april.

I think as a freelancer who mostly relied on connecting with Indies and devs and writing reviews/making retrospectives I have the right to get cranky when staff acts snooty at the mere mention of better discoverability. I still literally recommend this place over the other socials any day and refuse to touch the crypto skies but there really needs to be improvements in this regard here

Connor The Braixen Dreamer @SeafoamGaming11/15/2023, 12:49 PM

I’m not allowed to critique that as a freelancer this site has been openly hostile to them? And staff has mocked the idea of such things or tell you to put it in their idea forum? (Where it becomes a graveyard unless the heat gets turned up ala dark mod)

Cmon. I’ve been writing in games for nine years now. Almost ten. I think if I like this site i’d have the right to be a bit harsh on stubborn behavior.

muln @dedusmulntxt11/15/2023, 8:33 AM

just use #art

Connor The Braixen Dreamer @SeafoamGaming11/15/2023, 12:50 PM

For writing/video stuff? I don’t exactly group it under that… if thats where most folks go tho i may just have to try it. But i’m hoping this frustration sparks a positive step for freelancers.

muln @dedusmulntxt11/15/2023, 1:23 PM

i think there were some writing/video tags but i dont remember which exact ones

in tuft we trust @tit11/15/2023, 4:46 AM

Aside from harassment obviously, I don't really see the issue with it? How else am I going to find stuff from wayyyyy outside my bubble & how do I get random eyes on my art posts? Discoverability is still VERY limited here.
I would not be opposed to the global feed getting canned once it's easier to just "browse random" or ie. filter for multiple tags in a more advanced "+this -not_this" way, though. But sometimes I just wanna see weird stuff from people FAR outside my usual spheres. How else do you find cool stuff outside of sheer Brownian motion from rechosts from people you follow?

in tuft we trust @tit11/15/2023, 4:48 AM

remember when someone released tagslug onto the global feed which crashed the whole thing for everyone? twice in one week, fully by accident?

yeah wasn't me

Mr. Encyclopedia @mrencyclopedia11/15/2023, 4:49 AM

Cohost needs tag clouds

[deleted]11/15/2023, 5:15 AM

Xoey @CandyCorvid11/15/2023, 5:30 AM

You tag things that you post.
If someone searches for a tag, and your post has that tag, that person will see your post among the other posts that have that tag.

Foxhack @Foxhack11/15/2023, 7:30 AM

... how can you reply to something I deleted.

Also, I deleted that comment because I realized I was being mean and annoying and didn't want to give jkap any more headaches.

Xoey @CandyCorvid11/15/2023, 7:40 AM

I thought that was weird too.
https://help.antisoftware.club/support/tickets/11102

Vertxsees @Vertxsees11/15/2023, 5:37 AM

"which was almost exclusively used for harassment" this is wild to me, do better chosties

Sexy Mcnugget Cowboy @memesforthesoul11/15/2023, 5:50 AM

Had no idea it was an issue, thank you for explaining and I apologize for using.

Here's an idea for everyone, maybe we can mention in our posts and profiles what tags we use or want for discoverability for whatever topic given? (Not sure if that helps but maybe it can help encourage other users to use other tags and try to get people to save more tags rather than just one?

βSin @Betasine11/15/2023, 7:56 AM

As someone who never really used a tag-heavy social media site, after getting used to it, I enjoy it quite a lot, especially the tag-following system! It is very nice to be able to have a feed for both specific people I wanna see whatever stuff from and specific tags I wanna see all the stuff of. Good luck solving the global feed issue and big thanks to the whole Cohost team for making this site work! 🙏

Joe Wintergreen @joewintergreen11/15/2023, 11:08 AM

i feel like the main thing i miss from other sites here (which i think might be what people get out of that tag? i don't use it) is the ability to see when someone i follow comments on something. i want that in the feed, or a feed, although i would also want people to be able to opt out of their comments/a given comment being eligible for that.
it's hard to do much communicating on here when other people communicating is invisible unless i know them both. everyone is in stealth mode without meaning to be

the desire for an actual global feed seems weird as hell to me. twitter doesn't have an equivalent does it?

bat @fruitbat11/15/2023, 12:18 PM

it would stop being useful to me if there were more convenient ways to find tags!

@bobthebob11/15/2023, 1:49 PM

this site is borderline unusable without it imo, if there's no global feed there's no way to find new tags as a new user (sure i can just search for them, but at that point i have to just guess what stuff is active and what spellings for each tag and such), i have basically no way to organically stumble upon things, especially if it's not something i'm already very into!
like, literally the only reason i'm on this site currently was that someone on twitter pointed me to the global feed, when i first tried cohost i was basically just put on an empty page with zero indication of where is active or where people are or anything, so i searched tags for like 5 minutes then quit for 3 weeks until someone on twitter taught me how to use the site

Pinned Tags