joyeuse

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  • they/them

The dream of a gently woken lamb. Each blade of grass as it lies down. Sibling to those other blades you might have heard of. I've been described as "resilient; optimistic; patient."

Non-binary, agender, transneutral, neutrois. Begrudgingly attached to another word for my gender group starting with “N”.

You might know me by a pen name, and you'll find I've got another profile under that pen name.


literalHam
@literalHam

last rechost: so i just learned about 3 cues/balanced literacy from an article @noelbwrites posted in the comments, and i feel like i have entered a nightmare dimension. i truly feel this is cursed knowledge, but also it is apparently extremely widespread in US schools at this point??? So uh, seems pretty important to know and also no one I know knows about it and it is so deeply unbelievable, the 3 cues proponents sound so utterly, comically wrong. Like literally saying "the words dont matter". i just. i am going. to hurl myself. into the sun

the article about 3 cues below the cut


shel
@shel

Something interesting to me about this article is that the charts on illiteracy from 1988 to 2017 don't show. any actual substantial changes for better or worse. It turns out that the literacy rate in this country has been atrocious since before I was alive. I was lucky that my kindergarten exclusively used phonics, I was exposed to "hooked on phonics" at some point, and that I was a huge fan of Between the Lions which is a phonics based program. (We need those lions now more than ever apparently.)

Like, cueing seems to have been widespread during the millennial generation era, it's not just a Gen Z/Alpha thing. And the statistics in that article are pretty glib. 40% of people read below grad level/are poor readers, and 40% of people will learn to read no matter how they are taught. So that only leaves 20% of people who were lucky enough to get a good reading education, and were people who needed that education to learn to read.

Honestly I'm probably in the 40% who would have learned no matter what, even though I was also really into phonics. I stopped receiving a formal education after kindergarten but continued to develop my reading skills and vocabulary independently anyway, and came in the 97th percentile in SAT critical reading despite only technically having received a kindergarten level education.

Understanding 3-cueing makes a lot of stuff makes sense though, like, interactions I've had with people where I had had the rude thought "Can't you read?" No, they literally can't read at grade-level. Their misunderstandings came from using cueing. Every time a patron tells me "the computer says it's out of service" and the screen reads "Welcome, please enter your reservation PIN below" it's because they took only looked at the context cue of "this text is in a dialog box on a computer" and decided the text said "this computer is out of service" or something because they're used to error messages appearing in dialog boxes.

A lot of really hostile poor reading comprehension on the internet also makes sense. When people seem to respond to something that you simply did not say, but which uses similar Hot Words to what you did say, it's because they're using cueing. They saw a few words they recognize and some they don't, and filled in the middle with the opinion they think you probably would have if you're the kind of person who they think would use those words.

This also connects to a book I'm reading by Andy Clark called The Experience Machine which is about a cognitive theory called Predictive Processing, which is essentially that we do not manually process everything directly and fully all the time, but rather our brains are running a prediction engine to fill in much of our experiences, and use mostly sensory information to correct the model and fill in the parts that are unexpected. Because of this, if you are strongly expecting something enough, it's very easy to hallucinate it. Rather than using phonic and word decoding to give our model the actual sensory information of what the word is in order to correct for any prediction errors, we are instead teaching to rely entirely upon the prediction model, and teaching entirely the wrong ways to cue that model. There is a possibility that poor readers trained on cueing very strongly and genuinely believe that the words they saw are the words that mean whatever they think it meant, based on their guessing and predicting based on context cues, and that if challenged, would not even understand themselves to have guessed the words instead of reading them.

I also think that the models we use to evaluate national literacy statistics needs to be seriously re-evaluated. It's very clear to me that the United States' supposed 86% literacy rate is simply not true. An adult in the 21st century who cannot reliably read job applications, welfare forms, computer dialog boxes, emails, and signs on doors is not a literate person—let alone everything you lose when you are not literate enough to read even a rather light and breezy novel without pictures.


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in reply to @shel's post:

I remember reading this article and discussions at the time and then saw Noel's latest, but oh god I hadn't really made that connection from - people have been taught to read by conjecture and therefore there's probably a chunk of people online who are picking fights because they're literally not processing a post

"When people seem to respond to something that you simply did not say, but which uses similar Hot Words to what you did say, it's because they're using cueing" probably true some of the time but i also think this is just, like, a thing people do sometimes. like my mom is in her 60s and used to constantly do this in verbal conversations back when she was an angrier person than she is now.
and to be clear i agree with everything else, i've had pretty strong feelings about literacy rates and current pedagogy for years, and i also DO try to give people the benefit of the doubt whenever possible. i'm just not sure how much this particular hostile communication pattern is actually related

In this case I wonder if perhaps, through a predictive processing lens, their anger is affecting their predictive model significantly enough that they are not processing the words and instead reacting to what they expect you to have said...

My mom, who is very mean to me, one time made up a mistake I'd supposedly made speaking Chinese and then laughed at my supposed poor Chinese ability

This was in a text message and I clearly did not make the mistake in question

My dad was like that a lot, if he wanted to get in an argument it doesn't matter if you were emphatically agreeing with him and trying to disengage from the argument, he'd just imagine what you said and get really angry at that instead.

It wasn't even like inferring meaning that wasn't there, it was wholesale assuming I said something completely different. Up to and including him quoting my previous statement "verbatim" as being completely different from what I actua

oh he was just gaslighting me, wasn't he? Like actual gaslighting not just lying.

Yeah my mom was nowhere near this bad. What she'd hear was at least obviously based on what I'd said. A few times over the years I even straight up told her "it's like you listen to half the words in a sentence and then make up something that fits instead of listening to the whole sentence"
The last time I told her it actually got through to her and she hasn't really done this in like.. about a decade I guess

My old man is like this too. It's also happened on multiple occasions with the same exact subject: I would complain about the build quality of a device based on it being made from a cheap plastic, and he would retort about how oil is necessary for plastic production and complain about environmentalism. When in reality I was advocating for a product made from aluminum or a higher quality plastic.

i know exactly what you meant but lmao blindside aliens

it's kinda really scarily telling about both the general proposition of p-zombies and, more relevantly and specifically, general accolades and high regard people seem to have for any kind of modern "ai" output. it's making shit up in a similar way and they just meet in the middle and go "wow"

our brains are running a prediction engine to fill in much of our experiences, and use mostly sensory information to correct the model and fill in the parts that are unexpected

I have observed this in my own reading: I'll occasionally run across an unexpected word, fill it in with a more common word, and then, a sentence or two later, notice it doesn't make much sense in context and go back to discover I'd misinterpreted the word. At least I have error correction!

This glib and obviously biased by it just being a thing that people are talking a lot about right now but while reading all of this I had the thought that they are teaching kids to be a large language model: Pattern matching and prediction rather than comprehension.

Wow, that's so sad for all the kids who were prevented from learning how to read by this, and scary that it's still being taught. And to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars of teaching material yearly, no less! I literally can't imagine where I would be or what my life would look like if I couldn't read, and while I'm likely also in the 40% that would learn no matter what I don't want anyone to have their life so dramatically changed and their opportunities restricted by a teaching method that's just so thoroughly debunked.

School is supposed to help children learn, and the cueing method seems like it's doing the exact opposite of that. It saddens me that schools are so resistant to moving away from it and that millions of children every year struggle to read as a result. It just seems so obviously flawed, too; "looking at the picture" to figure out the word is obviously unsustainable. Nobody thinks that picture books last through the end of elementary school, much less into adulthood. If you teach someone to read using pictures as one of the main ways, if not the main way, that they identify (and hopefully memorize?) unknown words and then take the pictures away, how are they supposed to continue to develop their vocabulary?

There's a strong possibility that official literacy rates would not capture the impact of this method. It seems to me like a "test-taking strategy," an approach that will achieve higher accuracy on the types of questions in standardized tests that optimizes for time efficiency. Honestly a lot of SAT test prep stuff is training to skip stuff, which increases speed at a cost in accuracy.

Goodman and Clay believed that letters were the least reliable of the three cues, and that as people became better readers, they no longer needed to pay attention to all the letters in words. "In efficient word perception the reader relies mostly on the sentence and its meaning and some selected features of the forms of words," Clay wrote.7 For Goodman, accurate word recognition was not necessarily the goal of reading. The goal was to comprehend text.8 If the sentences were making sense, the reader must be getting the words right, or right enough.

:eggbug-tuesday::eggbug-tuesday::eggbug-tuesday:

on that last paragraph; re-evaluation would be good as like, 2 bars. "basic literacy" as in, they can read words and all that, and then 'competent literacy' in that they actually UNDERSTAND what's being read.

because basic literacy is still important, but as a metric by itself, it can be misconstrued, by a lot of peeps

so thats a longer way of saying you right as fuck, i spose